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#1736999 - 08/20/11 05:53 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Originally Posted by knotty



Yeah I believe that. Do you remember what 3 concepts DF said were most important? I can't recall now...
He talked about that in the first "group lesson"



I. Flow. 8th feel.
II. Rests. Let it breathe.
III. Where you land matters.


Almost !
I. Flow
II. End (at rest - say "yeah")
III. Breathe (feel into the rest)

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#1737007 - 08/20/11 06:24 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hi Knotty
While I was working out the scales, I realised that the middle chords I gave you yesterday didn't correspond with the progression you gave me for "I can't believe that you're in love with me".

If you have time, would you mind listening to my changes and checking my scales ?

http://www.box.net/shared/ohx8729p3bz00h8ggby9

http://www.box.net/shared/3gsvsc0m39c4v3yutej6

Many thanks as usual.

Regards
cus

#1737062 - 08/20/11 09:29 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple



Almost !
I. Flow
II. End (at rest - say "yeah")
III. Breathe (feel into the rest)


Had to be something like that! smile

I decided to do an arrangement. This is Somewhere from Bernstein's West Side Story.

http://www.box.net/shared/fa8dzcc2eqyzybt904ud
http://www.box.net/shared/50yu1sxu2yy9hf80ez24

I played it entirely without pedal to make it easier to hear what's there. I appreciate all comments as I haven't done this before. It took me ages! And that was with cheating by getting the chords off wikifonia.

Last edited by ten left thumbs; 08/20/11 09:30 AM.
#1737081 - 08/20/11 09:57 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey Cus,

sorry I didn't catch.
Yes, that looks good.
On one of those Maj7, you might as well throw in a maj7 once in a while.

#1737197 - 08/20/11 01:33 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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10,

Welcome to the club of arrangers!
The most difficult thing on earth! Isn't it?
I know your pain. It's both difficult to write, and difficult to play.

It is really worth spending some time for your arrangement to "settle in" though. I usually spend about 3 weeks after I've written it just to learn it. And it's not even close to being "settled in". But each time you write one, a little piece of something does settle in. Lately, I have been trying to apply a few restrictions. For example, I am about done with an arrangement of 'April in Paris', where I overused Sus chords. It's both easier to write because you always somewhat resort to the same trick, and also it's a good learning tool because you get to apply sus chords a lot. Same would apply to drop 2s, or any other type of voicing.
We should cover a few drop 2 / 3 voicings by the way. They're very useful.

As far as criticism, you've reached my limits. I can't really provide all that much in terms of do this, do that. I think the fact that you found it difficult is a good sign that you're stretching into something new. That's a good thing.

Also, I would play this kind of ballad without so much of a pulse, paying less attention to notes duration, but more to interpretation.
Overall, I think the arrangement sounded very good and as far as I'm concerned, you've grasped the point of the exercise.

You know who's an absolute monster at solo piano arrangements?

#1737211 - 08/20/11 01:54 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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ten left thumbs Offline
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Thankyou for taking the time to listen, knotty. smile

Not sure I really found it difficult - but time-consuming certainly. Some bits were trickier than others.

I've done away with the silly pointless modulation in the last phrase - it can end on the minor. I wasn't too happy with that sudden change to the major.

I can see doing them in different styles. One thing I began to realise is these harmonies are powerful - you can overdo them. Also, a single bass note. You can get too much of that. Maybe we don't need to hear that all the time.

It is satisfying to do, and I will practice it and have it settle, as you say.

Monster - I'm guessing here, is it the Monster?

#1737242 - 08/20/11 03:29 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Last recording for tonight. This one is better:

http://www.box.net/shared/de0u2t7ev9rlra8o1mdg


#1737291 - 08/20/11 05:32 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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very nice!

#1737528 - 08/21/11 07:22 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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10
That was just beautiful ! I can't believe you did your arrangement so quickly. I hope you enjoyed the process.

Knots
If you do record April In Paris, I'd love to listen to it. Your improv over Count Basie type of music is so fun.

For drop 3 voicings, do you mean taking the 3rd note from the top (RH) and make it the octave in the LH ?


#1737531 - 08/21/11 07:26 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Originally Posted by knotty
Hey Cus,

sorry I didn't catch.
Yes, that looks good.
On one of those Maj7, you might as well throw in a maj7 once in a while.


smile Well, after one and a quarter years, I will forgive you for not having caught me out wink
Yeah, the maj 7 sounds good with the root in it. I will do E F A C on the first and the last maj 7.
Thanks.

#1737537 - 08/21/11 08:05 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>>Yeah, the maj 7 sounds good with the root in it. I will do E F A C on the first and the last maj 7.
Even without the root.
E G A C is a nice voicing.
A C E G, same thing, higher


>> For drop 3 voicings, do you mean taking the 3rd note from the top (RH) and make it the octave in the LH ?
Yes, so the above would be
G E A C

#1737545 - 08/21/11 08:36 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Here's April in Paris recorded last night. I'll keep playing it each day until it gets slightly better.

http://www.box.net/shared/inqy6bylqddjlrp0e4ex
http://www.box.net/shared/4951ogy9yq47ba9aebmu

Next up: Yesterdays

#1737546 - 08/21/11 08:37 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>> Well, after one and a quarter years, I will forgive you for not having caught me out
Looks like I was a little tired when I wrote this ...

#1737568 - 08/21/11 10:09 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple
10
That was just beautiful ! I can't believe you did your arrangement so quickly. I hope you enjoyed the process.


Thankyou custard. It took about an evening, then perhaps 5 hours the next day, with breaks. But it was something once I had started, was hard to put down. This really feels quite grown up. Very performable. My own arrangement! smile

I am attempting to do something similar for guitar, but it is infinitely more difficult to play.

Sounds good, knotty. I noticed some real grown up chords in that too.

#1737662 - 08/21/11 02:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Singing along with Moose the Mooche, head and solo:

http://www.box.net/shared/2vogf74kvfijzu3dh6dd

This again took a l-o-n-g time. I don't think I could do it without the recording. Just so much to remember.

Also, I did persist with the chord progression in lesson 19, and was amazed to find that after working it in a couple of keys, the other keys came fairly easily. So I may well stick at it. One question, though. The chords are Gm6 Am7 D7b9 Gm6 - so I imagine I'm in G minor and it's a ii-V-i. So, for the ii, I would expect the b5. Is this just one of those random things, or is there something here about theory that I'm missing?

Improvising went better again today. smile I've started doing the hanons again, very low key, and I really think they help as I notice my fingers find the right keys (or at least keys in the right scale) without a lot of mental effort.

I find now that I've lost this urge to get through the lessons as fast as I can.

#1737930 - 08/21/11 09:56 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Wow 10, you make it sound so easy, so effortless, so intuitive, so fluent. And I know from personal experience it's not so easy, effortless, or intuitive. So, I wait in eager anticipation to hear more from your head, heart and solo.

Here's my contribution, I finally made it through Leaf Line at 66 bpm without any major flubs. Pushing the record button pushes the pressure and I'm apt to find what I know and what I don't. It's a diagnostic tool, if anything.

Leaf Line


Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1738165 - 08/22/11 07:44 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Norman Cotterell]  
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Very nice Norm. You've been working hard. You've brought out the nice melody and cool voicings.
You're more than ready for Lesson 2.

#1738167 - 08/22/11 07:50 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Hi 10
Well done with Moose especially with those ascending arps. Bet you can't wait to move on wink So are you enjoying Bird any more now ?
"Now's the Time" is easier than "Perhaps".

#1738173 - 08/22/11 08:06 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Originally Posted by knotty
Here's April in Paris recorded last night. I'll keep playing it each day until it gets slightly better.

http://www.box.net/shared/inqy6bylqddjlrp0e4ex
http://www.box.net/shared/4951ogy9yq47ba9aebmu

Next up: Yesterdays


Please take a bow Knotty ! This is so beautiful. I really like your voicings especially your drop 2s and your dims. I think my favourite part is m24 in E maj 7: your 1st chord is so extended with the 3 emphasised/repeated and the addition of the nice 9 (is this a Bill Evans thing or a Knotty thing ?) followed by the G sus. I've taken a print out and I'm going to study what you've done.
I think you already play it well - is it your intention to keep the LH straight and do the RH more out of tempo ?

I didn't know Yesterdays until Dave's masterclass on Oscar Peterson. If you record this one too, I'd love to listen to it.

#1738174 - 08/22/11 08:12 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Originally Posted by knotty
>>Yeah, the maj 7 sounds good with the root in it. I will do E F A C on the first and the last maj 7.
Even without the root.
E G A C is a nice voicing.
A C E G, same thing, higher


True. So I've now changed my voicings again. Now each of my F maj 7 voicings are different.

http://www.box.net/shared/9gkaeim2bkz2v9k2bgoq

F maj 7 E G A C
F7 Eb G A D
Bb maj 7 F A Bb D
Bb min 6 F G Bb Db
F maj 7 D G A C
F maj 7 E F A C

#1738176 - 08/22/11 08:16 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Originally Posted by knotty
>>
>> For drop 3 voicings, do you mean taking the 3rd note from the top (RH) and make it the octave in the LH ?
Yes, so the above would be
G E A C


Hi Knotty
So then do I play the E octave with the LH ?

#1738192 - 08/22/11 08:53 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Norman Cotterell]  
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Originally Posted by Norman Cotterell
Wow 10, you make it sound so easy, so effortless, so intuitive, so fluent. And I know from personal experience it's not so easy, effortless, or intuitive. So, I wait in eager anticipation to hear more from your head, heart and solo.


thankyou for saying! smile not intuitive at all.

Quote


Here's my contribution, I finally made it through Leaf Line at 66 bpm without any major flubs. Pushing the record button pushes the pressure and I'm apt to find what I know and what I don't. It's a diagnostic tool, if anything.

Leaf Line


way to go norm! thumb very controlled. i think you will find the others wont take as long. now that you know how to approach it.

#1738193 - 08/22/11 08:57 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple
Hi 10
Well done with Moose especially with those ascending arps. Bet you can't wait to move on wink So are you enjoying Bird any more now ?
"Now's the Time" is easier than "Perhaps".


enjoying moose more. i sing i understand. smile jurys out on bird. RH sore so may dedicate more time to solos. hanons at 130 is clearly too much for me. delicate nerves dammit.

#1738238 - 08/22/11 10:25 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>> http://www.box.net/shared/2vogf74kvfijzu3dh6dd
Moose is hard!!
I'd say you can stick with this one for a little longer.
One thing I find really help me find the pitches and nuances is to simply play along. To play the entire solo is very time consuming, to play at tempo is extremely time consuming (if not evil), but to simply play 1 or 2 measure at a time is just a couple of hours worth of work. And I think it's worth it.


>>One question, though. The chords are Gm6 Am7 D7b9 Gm6 - so I imagine I'm in G minor and it's a ii-V-i. So, for the ii, I would expect the b5. Is this just one of those random things, or is there something here about theory that I'm missing?
I agree with you. I'd have to go back to the book and check, but that is un-expected.


#1738239 - 08/22/11 10:26 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple
Very nice Norm. You've been working hard. You've brought out the nice melody and cool voicings.
You're more than ready for Lesson 2.

+1

#1738241 - 08/22/11 10:27 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple
Originally Posted by knotty
>>Yeah, the maj 7 sounds good with the root in it. I will do E F A C on the first and the last maj 7.
Even without the root.
E G A C is a nice voicing.
A C E G, same thing, higher


True. So I've now changed my voicings again. Now each of my F maj 7 voicings are different.

http://www.box.net/shared/9gkaeim2bkz2v9k2bgoq

F maj 7 E G A C
F7 Eb G A D
Bb maj 7 F A Bb D
Bb min 6 F G Bb Db
F maj 7 D G A C
F maj 7 E F A C


If you can keep it up, that's great. I love throwing in a new voicing when I do a repetitive exercise. It's like learning it for free.


#1738244 - 08/22/11 10:34 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple

Please take a bow Knotty ! This is so beautiful. I really like your voicings especially your drop 2s and your dims. I think my favourite part is m24 in E maj 7: your 1st chord is so extended with the 3 emphasised/repeated and the addition of the nice 9 (is this a Bill Evans thing or a Knotty thing ?) followed by the G sus. I've taken a print out and I'm going to study what you've done.
I think you already play it well - is it your intention to keep the LH straight and do the RH more out of tempo ?

I didn't know Yesterdays until Dave's masterclass on Oscar Peterson. If you record this one too, I'd love to listen to it.


Thanks Cus, I'm glad you liked it.
The Emaj7 on m24 is really pretty plain. Just a 9 in it. I did like the way it sounded there.
I do like the big sus chord that follows. Sus chords have this very open sound. Plus it is pretty wide on the piano so it sounds big. I like that.
The last chord measure 23 is pretty wacked. It's a D7 over a B7. I use this throughout the arrangement.
I don't know if the interpretation is up there yet. It would probably take longer than I'm willing to spend.

Yesterdays is a beautiful tune. A great old standard that stays very modern sounding. I'm working on basslines for it also, I think the arrangement will be much easier than April in Paris, which is a very tricky tune.

#1738245 - 08/22/11 10:35 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Originally Posted by custard apple
Originally Posted by knotty
>>
>> For drop 3 voicings, do you mean taking the 3rd note from the top (RH) and make it the octave in the LH ?
Yes, so the above would be
G E A C


Hi Knotty
So then do I play the E octave with the LH ?


you can simply play those 4 notes.

#1738493 - 08/22/11 05:16 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Lot's of good listening. Very nice arrangements Knotty and Ten. And Norman, you're really going to town - you're swingin, thumb

I just started lesson eight and here are two compositions, lesson two (Another Leafy Tune) and lesson three (Don't Hold Your Breath). I did most of the second composition after I did the first (Pile of Leaves). I just finished it up a few days ago. The third composition I did in the last couple of days. This is after I've been doing solo pattern transpositions where I'm learning lots. I'm pretty happy with #3 (Don't hold...). I tried to incorporate some phrasing from solo pattern 3. In solo pattern #4 I'm learning what to play over alt chords and I'm using some of that also. And I tried to include both short and long phrases.
Another Leafy Tune (lesson two)
Don't Hold Your Breath (lesson three)
So, these two are before and after Solo Pattern work.

Last edited by time flies; 08/22/11 05:18 PM.
#1738538 - 08/22/11 06:18 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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great flow, time! sounds great. i especially liked the lh in leafy tune where the repeated chords come fast and furious. cheeky end to dont hold. smile also, a cool title!

sounds trite i know, but i suppose the point is that the melodic lines you can make over the changes are infinite.

beginning to feel that doing this as a group may even beat private lessons as we learn so much from each other.

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