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As I understand it, the issue is that, when you plug something into the headphone jack (whether for the purpose of using headphones, or just to silence the speaker), at least some Privia models add an EQ to the sound that is optimized for headphones, and that EQ is applied even at the Line Outs. Ideally, the Line Out should be unaltered... there is no reason I can imagine for wanting a headphone-optimized EQ to ever appear at the line out.

It becomes an issue if you prefer to silence the speakers during amplified live performance, since the signal being sent to the house is pre-equalized for headphones, and therefore no longer its best. I happen to be one of the people who prefers the speakers to be on for the reason you mentioned (and it is one reason I bemoan the loss of the PX330 speakers on the otherwise far superior PX3), but there are people who would rather turn the speakers off for one reason or another.

It also would be an issue if you are recording your performance into a DAW or whatever, and have chosen to silence the board's internal speakers with the headphone jack insertion (perhaps you're recording late at night). You can't get a "neutral" signal to record if anything is plugged into the headphone jack.

So there are numerous downsides to altering the line out EQ depending on whether or not the headphone jack is activated, and no upside. I suspect it was just an unfortunate by-product of the way it is engineered, that it can't apply the optimized headphone EQ to the EQ jacks without also applying it to the Line Out jacks, that whatever it does in one place is necessarily duplicated at the other.

If that's the case, and they can still make software mods to the new models, the easiest way to address it might be a menu setting that allows someone to disable the headphone EQ, so that even if something is plugged into the headphone jack, no such EQ is engaged. That way, although you lose the headphone optimized EQ in the phones, you still get the desired neutral sound out the Line Out, even when something is plugged into the headphone jack.

BTW, the Yamaha NP-V80 has a feature where you can select from 5 different EQ settings: two designed for optimum sound through the internal speakers, one designed for headphones, and two designed for use with external speakers. In frustrating Yamaha manner, however, even their own tech support could not tell me the difference between the two external settings, or even whether any setting corresponded to "flat" (i.e. what would be the most neutral to use, independent of playback system, i.e. for recording).

Mike on page E-7 of the PX-330 manual there is a warning:



I have found it seems to be more than just eq, the stereo image also changes.

Using a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter inserted into the headphone jack isn't the issue, the issue is the output quality of the Line out jacks is altered. If they still have that "feature" its truly sad, because this has been brought up numerous times on various forums.

AnotherScott,
I honestly don't know how or if EQ is implemented this way on the new PX-_50 series. Clearly I missed this being brought up as an issue previously with the current line and I've never investigated this myself. I'm traveling a lot over the next couple weeks. Hopefully around the end of the month when I'm back in the office with a PX-350 prototype, I can look into this further.

It would make sense to to have the option to optimise the line outs for headphones if using a headphone amp connected to the line outs. I think most folks who were using a quality headphone amp would prefer to use the line outs.

As a PX-330 owner I agree with everything else you said though.

Greg.

Does the 330/350 not have a "local control" command to silence the on-board speakers? My Casio AP-45 console does. When I'm using a software piano through a midi interface, I don't want to hear the piano's speakers.

@jrcallan: Yes, it does, however that's irrelevant to the problem being discussed. We want to be able to connect the DP up to external equipment, without having the speakers on, and without having the headphone optimisation. Disabling "local control" disables the internal sounds entirely, so it's not a solution.
You could simply turn the volume down to zero to achieve the same result. (however disabling local control seems to be important for me when using software pianos and using USB MIDI - I get too much latency otherwise. It shouldn't be like that - it's a problem IMHO)

Greg.

I've only just caught up with this thread. I'm particularly busy elsewhere these days. This new Casio range is exciting, I've always liked the Privia PX-8xxx range, everything but the wobbly keys. As I'm in "change my piano" mood at the moment I'm looking forward to trying out the new pianos here in the UK. If Casio have sorted the keyboard, I'll be donating my CN33 to one of my granddaughters and getting one of the new Casio's.

You think it's upgrade compared to CN33 ?

Yeah, that sounds like a mistake. I'd suggest getting the casio and giving whichever piano you like less to your granddaughters (or the other way around, depending on how important you think their piano experience is). Or better yet, wait until you can actually play these Casios before forming an opinion on them.

Upgrades notwithstanding, it's unlikely that the new casios will really be on par with your kawai in most ways.

Yep, but if (that's a big if) the keybed is better than before and comparable to the KAWAI , then KAWAI is in trouble I guess. Still , I doubt the keybed has the same quality, durability and QC. Let's wait and see...

They already have three sensors, graded hammer weights, and fake ivory/ebony tops in the PX-3. So my bet is the all new! key action in these 4 models isn't all that new.

Can anyone comment on the PX-3 action, specifically in comparison to the PX-130/330 action?

I know the previous Casio three sensor ivory keybeds , but they are not on par with the RH (II).

Although they are very (!) lightweight - Casio deserves the term portable , as with the fatar tp100 based pianos (sp8, numa piano etc). For the mp6 es7 and phaIII based Roland's I' m not so convinced (still bulky to carry around). So if they come with a lightweight revised keybed at Casio that is really as good as RH / PHAIII, that would be a winner...

My guess is you can't have both - very lighweight and the best piano keybed - and there will always be a trade-off.

Actions can easily have same # sensors, gradedness, and matte finish and be totally different (in important ways we don't have buzzwords for). So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.


I am quite sure Mike Martin from Casio has confirmed that all three keybeds are identical except for the matte finish of the PX3.

Thanks!

My bet that this is just the PX-3 action is tad cynical, but in this market (as Lily Tomlin said) "No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up."

At least Casio did not over-sell the PX-3 action as new... as far as I can remember, they never claimed it was "all new," the only new feature they claimed for it was the ivory finish.

Posted by Mike in another forum: "The new models have both a new action and a new piano sound."

and in another forum, in response to a question of "I know the ebony keys on the new Privias are totally new, but I'm wondering if the ivory on the whites is the same as the PX-3 (and the 830, I think it was) or new as well." he answered "All new. :-)"

and in this forum, "The key bed has also been improved, while I'm not an engineer and I haven't had an opportunity to take one apart the action simply feels better and yes there is less side to side movement. The new 'Ebony and Ivory' texture to the keys is also a huge improvement, much better than the text we've done on the AP-420, AP-620 and PX-3." This was in the "P95 and Casio PX-x30 series owners:-will you upgrade?" thread.

Let's just wait and see when the unbiased user reports start to dripple in. Can't wait. Unfortunately this will still only be first impressions; how the keybed holds on the long run and when it has been a bit mistreated en moved around (portables ) will take a while longer to judge. First owners of the new series , please write a review !

RE: Brislin's improvisation demo, IMHO it actually does have places where he holds notes for a reasonably long time, especially in the bass, which I think is where it matters most. (still not as long as I'd like, but it's not as bad as I was expecting)

I think I can hear the richer sympathetic resonance - it sounds good.

Greg.

Cool! I didn't know there was that much info regarding the new keys out there. Thanks anotherscott!

OK, you've got me going back and listening to it again too.

From the low note sustain it seems like he's just mashing and holding the pedal down most of the time - agreed?

If so, I'm not hearing much in the way of sympathetic resonance. It almost sounds like he's using the sostenuto pedal for the bass notes because the mid and upper notes aren't running together like a watercolor left out in the rain (like a real AP would behave). And I'm hearing fairly short decay times on those low notes. As well as kind of vaguely fake tinkly sounding upper mids.

I'll reserve final judgment until someone sends me a DPBSD MP3, but my enthusiasm for this product release is rapidly waning.

dewster, according to Mike, smpathetic reasonance and the 256 polyphony are reserved for the PX-850. Brislin was playing a PX-350 which will not have it. He did also mention the piano sample is new but recorded off the same piano as the Pxx-30 series. The sustain of the sample is supposed to be substantially longer. You will have to find someone with a PX-850 to submit a DPBSD to hear the sympathetic resonance. These new models should be better given the price increase.