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Position playing: I think this is where a person becomes used to their hands being in a particular position, e.g. thumbs on middle C, or rh thumb on middle C, lh finger 5 on bass C. The problem comes where they are so used to this, when they move to a different position, they no longer know where the notes are, because all along, they weren't really reading the notes, just the finger numbers. On the other hand, you have to start somewhere...

It's only a problem when the teacher doesn't know what he/she is doing. The Fabers do a great job teaching note-reading and intervallic reading in conjunction with the hand positions.

Hi and thankyou for understanding and acknowledging our geographical circumstances!!! We are basically, for all intents and purposes, in the outback (right in centre of Queensland). So, yes, we are remote. Not as remote as the red centre. But remote. Small town. And remote. Sometimes you just gotta go somewhere to get the distances, the middle of Australia is a bit like that.

anyway, we have a digital piano so it doesn't need tuning. We don't have a tuner who lives here, and it gets very hot and we live in small cottage. For these reasons we went with a Roland.

I will look more closely at Piano Adventures and Alfred's premier. In the meantime I will work with what I have already bought.

thanks so much for all the help

And I'd just like to point out to those who are unfamiliar with the Australian exam systems that AMEB grade 5 is not beginner stuff. The current grade 5 syllabus includes things like Bach 2-pt inventions and suite movements, studies from Heller op.45, some easier Beethoven sonata movements, Grieg lyric pieces, Schumann pieces from Kinderszenen and Waldeszenen, pieces from Bartok Mikrokosmos vols IV and V.

Very wise.

So, with MFPA, I keep bearing in mind that it is all about getting them reading the page (left to right) and obeying what it says. So, you can have them read first, then listen to the track. Then once they try to play to the track, they begin to understand that they need to keep a steady rhythm - they can't just play the note when they feel like it, but when the music needs it.

Also they have warm ups that are really helpful for getting good relaxed technique.

That is the essence of book A, and you have the time in book A to teach the names of white notes. Note reading starts in book B.

Do you say crotchets or quarter notes?

I think anyone that can play at Grade 5 is great. Thank goodness everyone does not need to be an elitist. Grade 5 is more than some of us will accomplish in what is left of our lifetime.

thankyou very much for your tips re using Piano Adventures... we say Crotchets, Minims (spelling?) and whole notes. At least, that's what I grew up saying. Are these words used anymore in modern teaching?

Absolutely they are. In the musical circles I move in we say crotchets, minims and semibreves. And semiquavers and demisemiquavers. However, most are familiar with the American terminology as well. I still can't think "quarter notes" - I have to translate.

PS Crotchets/quavers are used in the UK.

The statement that somebody plays at a grade level is meaningless, and no judgment can be made about someone based on that. What a student learns while going through the material depends on the teacher and the student. There is nothing to stop a good teacher with a keen and able to student to to put a lot of depth into it even teaching "grade one". Conversely, a grade 8 student may have been given a minimum of repertoire to be polished for exams, with only that technique and theory as might be needed for the same purpose.

The OP wants to teach her young children. I imagine off the top of my head that the kinds of things she would need would be:
- having an eye that they sit and move in a natural way and eventually getting decent playing form (kids are natural anyway), so knowing roughly what that is
- a feel for what and where the notes are
- sounding out tunes; imitating tunes
- playing with sounds (spooky, nice, anything)
- playing for your children, (they enjoy it / dance to it)
- a feel for "theory" in a concrete way

This doesn't require a person with the ability to play virtuoso advanced music, or who has mastered Shenkerian analysis. But I'd want to have had a teacher who gave me an idea of natural movement at the piano, a real understanding of what music is about which I can feel in my bones and transmit to my children. I would expect that when picking up several editions of method books, that I could get a feel for what is behind what they are saying, based on my own experience in lessons.

The explanation of "grade 5" doesn't tell us much in that respect.

I have to disagree about one point: the teacher SHOULD be able to play more than what they are teaching, for a multitude of reasons. Someone who is playing grade 1 material SHOULD NOT BE TEACHING NO MATTER WHAT. They can start LEARNING to teach, but YES there is such a thing as 'too soon.'

However, I agree that they don't necessarily need to be a certain grade or anything of that sort.

OK, just a little thing I came across in using these books. Obviously, they are American and use American lingo. But it's easy to adapt. So what I teach is for a crotchet say "walk". For a minim say "mi- nim". If you're happy with "whole note hold it", fine (I use "long note hold it").

The point it, time signatures, counting and bar lines are unnecessary distractions for starters.

You have not addressed any of my main points, and I do not think that you understood my post. You cannot agree or disagree until you do. You seem to be talking about repertoire. I was not. Would you care to see which points I was making, what kinds of skills and teaching I was talking about, and address these?

In any case, the OP did not stop at the grade 1 level, and we also don't know what training she got while taking lessons. Teaching and its content varies immensely.

yeah well you know my lessons were akin to anyone's lessons as a kid in the 70's and 80's, nothing out of the ordinary. I didn't have additional training. I started at 7, did it for a couple of years, stopped for a few, but still tinkered and mucked about, started again, stopped and then started again (all due to living circumstances and teacher availability) which was my own choice because I really wanted to complete Grade 3 (which I had stopped in the middle of) then I continued onto Grade 5, by which time I was finishing school and moving onto tertiary studies (not in music, sadly!). So, I am certainly a very average, basic beginner by most people's standards here. But I do feel I know sufficient to get my children started. I would LOVE to have been blessed by teachers who could teach how to improvise, sight read, etc. But my piano lessons were very by the book and traditional. Unfortunately now I NEED the music to play which, for me, is an impediment and restriction. I realise how inadequate my abilities are because of this. While my theory was rigorous, I would love to have the ability to just sit down and play by ear with both hands. I need to have the music. And this, I believe, is what puts me well and truly in the beginner box still. I am nowhere near in the league of most of you! I would be your student!!

Anyway, my DD7 is a self-taught reader (she's gifted), and she's already working stuff out. I also happen to believe strongly in natural learning. So, until they're older or until we are lucky enough to have access to a qualified teacher, I should be able to get by. I can play (or not, depending on your definition), enough, I know the basics. I have a feel for music, as do my children, I believe.

Thanks ten thumbs for your tips. These are very helpful. I like using "walk" for crotchets. Whole note hold it. Nice. Thanks for that.

The other day while we were doing Recorder (which she struggles with because it always squeaks for her) I found myself talking about the time signature and bar lines etc (out of the book that we're using for that) and I could tell, as you say, it was an unnecessary distraction. So, that's actually a huge relief for me to hear you say that!

You know one rule that has stuck in my head all these years since I was a kid and I don't know if its still used by anyone was to learn the notes on the lines with Every Good Boy Deserves Fruit. And FACE for the spaces.

I am sure the books I will be using have far better ways of teaching than this. But hey, it worked for me!

Every Good Boy Deserves Fruit.

Now that's a new one for me. We learned that the boys liked FUDGE!

Maybe it's Australian. I only ever heard Every Good Boy Deserves Fruit until the internet.

I disagree with most of your points very often, actually, because they are from someone who isn't a teacher and who only considers her own perspectives and experience. It can't be both. Yes, I did understand your points. This isn't the first time we've had this exchange.

Repertoire is the basis for everything else - it really is as simple as that. And teaching and its contents don't actually vary immensely. At their base, it is fairly consistent.

All cows eat grass, and grannies boots don't fit aunties.

But, I've never found these terribly helpful. If ever I'm tempted to use them, the students normally decide that grannies boots deserve fruit and that all cows eat good boys. Bottom line, they gotta learn their lines and spaces, and the books generally start with middle C which fits smack in between the cows and the boots.

haha, me too. We have a healthier diet here, obviously.

I wanted to get a better understanding before responding. This has left me perplexed.

What you seem to be saying is that a statement is true according to who says it. Let us take something that everyone agrees on: bench height and distance are important. What you seem to be saying is that if someone who has a signature of "teacher" says "Bench height is important." this will be true. If someone without that signature says the same thing, then it will not be true. That may not be what you are saying, but that is what I understand.

For the other part of your statement: "Consider own perspectives and experience" - everyone, including all teachers, does this. But if you mean a perspective limited to experiences I had as a student: that is a wrong impression. For the rest, you know very little about me.


From the first response you gave, you seemed to understand isolated factual statements, but not overall ideas. The idea of someone is at a grade 1 piano level, trying to teach is not close to what I was trying to say. I also don't think you understood my reasons.

Here is my pre-existing understanding of this:

The skills in playing music at the piano consist of such things as knowing how to approach a piece, being able to read music, knowing how to move at the piano (technique), understanding theory in a practical way, etc. So if a student has a given piece in ABA form modulating from C major to G major, moving to different areas of the keyboard, with dynamics or various articulations, these all constitute various things the student will be learning. In this example there are various elements of technique and theory. Is this the kind of thing you mean? If so, I'm already there.


We have to be careful in defining what we each mean.

My thought goes to skills first. Among the skills that I see for piano: reading music, technique, how to approach a piece, how to practice, theory such as understanding key signatures, a feel for what chords are about etc. In the way pieces are taught the following are possible:

- finger numbers everywhere always. The piece will be played, so the final result is there in that respect.
- poor or wrong or no guidance in technique, leading to physical problems and poor habits
- no guidance in how to approach the piece in practicing, how to practice

In this respect there will be a great difference between teachers. In a vast forum such as this, all possibilities need be considered. Do you disagree with these possibilities?

This is pertinent for someone planning to teach their own child. At the point that I posted we only knew that the OP had gotten grade 5 in some way. If this was under excellent guidance then it's a different scenario than otherwise. For example, we know that some earlier teaching of the "hold the ball" hand was done in a poor way, so that students ended up with a tight hand or claw. You don't want that to be passed on.

I suggested the idea of Skype where an experienced teacher might be able to demonstrate and possibly watch the students. I am familiar with remote, isolated areas and have seen this done.

I didn't have the impression that you were addressing the things that I mentioned, or caught the essence of my post. At that point very little was known about the OP's background. Grade by itself does not tell enough in the sense of the points that I just made. Does it need to be stated that I also wouldn't see someone having only reached grade 1 piano, trying to teach?

Kristin, I taught my daughter for a few years. She was my youngest - my other two kids took outside lessons, but for a few personal reasons, we felt she would do better with me.

I used other materials with her (way back then - she's 23), but I am in the process of slowing switching my studio from Fabers' Piano Adventures to Alfred's Premier Piano. I think it would work very well for you. Use the full set (lesson, technique, theory, and performance) - you'll get lots of variety, and your child will get a solid grounding.

Both Alfred and Faber have some videos online that you might find helpful, in terms of what the teacher is looking for, and what the child should be doing. I do! Here's Alfred's page: http://www.premierpianocourse.com/

Faber's is here: http://pianoadventures.com/guide/index.html

(Watch them both, even if you don't use the method.)

As he/she will be your "first" student, I urge you to read everything on the page, and don't skip anything. It is very tempting, especially with a bright child, to think that the beginning pages don't need to be practiced. They seem so simple to us now, that it's hard to remember what it's like to be a beginner.

But learning to play the piano is so much more than pressing the right key. It's learning to read a code, paying attention to multiple things at the same time - notes, dynamics, articulations, body and hand positions, and so on. Those books teach one concept at a time, giving the child lots of time to master it. If we rush through the beginning, little things like "up and down" or watching the music, or good hand position, don't get time to become habits, and have to be learned later, while learning other things, and becomes much harder.

Since you already have experience homeschooling your child, I think that will help - You already know that you can't be "mom" and "teacher" at the same time. That you can't go all soft and squishy, and say "never mind" every time he/she encounters something difficult. Treat lesson times as if someone else were the teacher. Lesson times must be scheduled, or they'll get skipped or postponed. Your child will pick up on the "value" you place on it. Practicing must be also regular - and don't be tempted to "teach" every time he/she practices. That's the time you need to be "mom" and full of praise. (You might find headphones useful for practicing, if criticizing is too tempting.)

Good luck!