Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
81 registered members (Almaviva, anotherscott, Agent88, ando, accordeur, 21 invisible), 1,838 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
#1959038 - 09/14/12 08:40 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,273
anotherscott Online content
4000 Post Club Member
anotherscott  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,273
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Software pianos.

Not sure I follow.

Whatever specs Yamaha will give you will sound lame compared to software pianos.

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#1959249 - 09/15/12 01:25 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Software pianos.

Not sure I follow.

Whatever specs Yamaha will give you will sound lame compared to software pianos.

I think I've almost got it:

1. Software pianos
2. ???
3. Yamaha is forced to treat their customers rudely.

How's that?

Now just gotta figure out step 2...

#1959327 - 09/15/12 05:43 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: PossumES8SP280]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,456
MacMacMac Offline
5000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,456
North Carolina
anotherscott: You drive directly to the point ...
Originally Posted by anotherscott
As I always say, specs don't matter, sound does.
... though, I presume, you would willingly add touch to the list.

For my part, I don't care what's inside. There are no means for modification, customization, or upgrades. The box is what it is. So whether they tell you the specs (which are often faked or "massaged") or not, you're still left to judge for yourself the sound and touch. Many of the specs just don't matter.

#1959331 - 09/15/12 05:49 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,245
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,245
Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by dewster
I think I've almost got it:

1. Software pianos
2. ???
3. Yamaha is forced to treat their customers rudely.

How's that?

Now just gotta figure out step 2...


Keep thinking it over - I'm sure you'll find the answer in the end!

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1959359 - 09/15/12 07:11 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: PianoWorksATL]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,824
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member
doremi  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,824


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
#1959544 - 09/16/12 08:56 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: PossumES8SP280]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 131
bsl100 Offline
Full Member
bsl100  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 131
Would you not like to get an answer from a Medical, Car or Electronics company asking for routine info about its product. Info which is commonly put in their brochure or packet inserts.

Am I going to make a copy of their product with this information? Is the info a cause for litigation?

How many keys does your product have?.... Well it's propriety information!!!!
What's the weight of the keyboard? ......!!!!!!!!

I'm going to be shy asking questions?

MMM, I agree that I will not be able to change anything, but the sheer placebo effect that information can have is something which cannot be undermined. Thats the reason even subjects taking placebos in a blinded drug study show improvements.

The experts will be able to make use of each bit of info about a DP and point out any flaws or put all its functions to the best use. But to the lay person, it's info which drives one to a product.

Really, I'm still confused. This, after having bought a $4200 Clavinova a couple of months back.

#1959553 - 09/16/12 09:43 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,273
anotherscott Online content
4000 Post Club Member
anotherscott  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,273
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Software pianos.

Not sure I follow.

Whatever specs Yamaha will give you will sound lame compared to software pianos.

I think I've almost got it:

1. Software pianos
2. ???
3. Yamaha is forced to treat their customers rudely.

How's that?

Now just gotta figure out step 2...


1. Software pianos have great specs.

2. Yamaha realizes that their specs will sound lame when compared to 18 layers, no loops, x gigabytes, etc.

3. Yamaha decides it's not in their interest to make it so obvious to potential customers that, spec-wise, their pianos are so far behind what they could get by connecting any keyboard to a computer.

Though personally, I don't think the answer needs to be so specific. Regardless of whether you're comparing to software or not, I think it's simpler: the kind of specs we're talking about are likely to be trumpeted if the manufacturer thinks it will persuade someone to take a closer look at their product, and is likely to be kept quiet if it probably won't.

The purpose of many specs is to sell, not to inform.

#1959561 - 09/16/12 10:00 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: MacMacMac]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,273
anotherscott Online content
4000 Post Club Member
anotherscott  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,273
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
anotherscott: You drive directly to the point ...
Originally Posted by anotherscott
As I always say, specs don't matter, sound does.
... though, I presume, you would willingly add touch to the list.

Mais oui!

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
whether they tell you the specs (which are often faked or "massaged") or not, you're still left to judge for yourself the sound and touch. Many of the specs just don't matter.

Exactly. Academically, it can be interesting to consider, for example, whether a given spec or feature implementation is the reason something sounds as good as it does... but even then, it's no assurance that something else with the same spec or feature will sound as good (or that one without it won't sound better). Conversely, one might consider whether a particular spec contributes to something sounding as bad as it does.

I happen to be interested in the technologies (obviously), but the knowledge is of pretty much no use in actually picking out an instrument. These understandings may help explain why an instrument sounds the way it does, but that's how I see them, as possible explanations, but not predictors.

#1959580 - 09/16/12 10:40 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by anotherscott
I happen to be interested in the technologies (obviously), but the knowledge is of pretty much no use in actually picking out an instrument. These understandings may help explain why an instrument sounds the way it does, but that's how I see them, as possible explanations, but not predictors.

I generally agree that one can't make sweeping spec-based statements that apply to all DPs. But there are very strong tendencies at work that one can't ignore.

The low end of sample set sized DPs tend to sound worse than those on the high end of sample size. Since manufacturers are loath to tell us this single number anymore, we have to look at attack and loop sample sizes, stretching ratio, and layer count to estimate it.

Can a DP with a smallish sample set sound as good or better than one with a largish sample set? Sure, but the odds are against it. When they start really hacking on a sample set they tend to do it in ways that are fairly audible.

Where sample set size becomes relatively moot (all other things being equal) is maybe around 4 GB. Until the day when all DPs - including those skirting the toy category - have this large of a sample (it will happen) then artifacts that are directly related to the crude reduction of sample size will likely remain a strong determinant of the potential basic sound quality.

#1959600 - 09/16/12 11:22 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 730
PossumES8SP280 Offline
500 Post Club Member
PossumES8SP280  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 730
For example, I loved the sound of my Korg SG Rack and it was 24MB in ROm with 15MB being the main piano sample.

Its not just specs though it is also the normal marketing propaganda like "Samples taken painstakingly from a concert grand"- Well I should hope its a concert grand updated!

Also, I still to this day do not know if Pure Cf Sampling on teh 105 is really that much better than the "Un-Pure" Cf sampling on the 85 and 95



Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280
Kawai ES8
Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone
#1994147 - 12/03/12 02:31 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: PossumES8SP280]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 118
D7K Offline
Full Member
D7K  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 118
Heres the answer to how many samples for th p105 (did not see a listing in this thread for it):

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article...s/digitalpianos/p_series/p-155/318/7263/

3 it is.

Last edited by D7K; 12/03/12 02:54 PM.

Jeff
Casio PX-5S Pro - my new adventure
Yamaha p105 - gone but not forgotten
#1994210 - 12/03/12 04:57 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: D7K]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by D7K
Heres the answer to how many samples for th p105 (did not see a listing in this thread for it):

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article...s/digitalpianos/p_series/p-155/318/7263/

3 it is.

Interesting. From the P-105 DPBSD review:

- This is a smoothly blended multi-velocity layer sample set (two steps visible @ v=72,90).

So I concur.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Thomas Bailey
by ClsscLib. 10/17/17 09:46 PM
Good Gig Bag for Roland RD700NX?
by ClsscLib. 10/17/17 09:26 PM
What piano brands that use high-quality actions.
by JDRPiano. 10/17/17 09:17 PM
Getting better at memorizing
by rov. 10/17/17 07:08 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,353
Posts2,665,370
Members88,989
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0