Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
67 registered members (ARpiano, ando, Beemer, Agent88, Andy001, Alex C, 13 invisible), 1,195 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
#1961575 - 09/20/12 12:12 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Roy123]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Withindale  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Suffolk, England
Originally Posted by Roy123
My comment about granite being not such a good conductor of sound was made only because of the claims that were made by the inventor.

Quite so!


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#1961577 - 09/20/12 12:15 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Granite tunes to the earth frequency, that is the fundamentals of that physics probably...

May be granite bridge will protect us against cancers caused by the Monsanto based corn that we eat every day, and that killed half of the rats that where eating them for 2 years ...

Lets go to esoteric talk ...


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1961585 - 09/20/12 12:50 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Withindale]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by Withindale
Originally Posted by Roy123
... granite is not a very good conductor of sound ...

Do bridges conduct sound or simply cause soundboards to move with the strings?

It is the function of the bridge to conduct energy from the vibrating strings to the soundboard.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#1961632 - 09/20/12 02:13 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Del]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Withindale  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Suffolk, England
Originally Posted by Del
It is the function of the bridge to conduct energy from the vibrating strings to the soundboard.


Yes, but how?

When we were kids we used to attach two tin cans to the ends of a length of string and use them, with the string pulled tight, as a primitive telephone transmitter and receiver.

Later on we messed around with loudspeakers where the diaphragms move with the coils.

Coming back to pianos, Gabriel Weinreich showed how the oscillations of unisons couple through the bridge while you, Del, recently explained how the length of the backscale affects the movement of the bridge soundboard.

In essence, does the bridge conduct energy like that string, or does the soundboard and bridge assembly vibrate like a loudspeaker, or is something else at play, or a combination?


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1961684 - 09/20/12 03:29 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Speed of sound in wood across the grain is about 1/3-1/5 that of going with the grain. With the application of a wood bridge there will be some losses due to grain orientation we need to carve it. I believe this is where a material that has uniform sound transmission qualities in every direction would be more suitable than wood which has limitations in this respect.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#1961733 - 09/20/12 05:20 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Withindale]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by Withindale
Originally Posted by Del
It is the function of the bridge to conduct energy from the vibrating strings to the soundboard.

Yes, but how? When we were kids we used to attach two tin cans to the ends of a length of string and use them, with the string pulled tight, as a primitive telephone transmitter and receiver. Later on we messed around with loudspeakers where the diaphragms move with the coils.

Coming back to pianos, Gabriel Weinreich showed how the oscillations of unisons couple through the bridge while you, Del, recently explained how the length of the backscale affects the movement of the bridge soundboard.

In essence, does the bridge conduct energy like that string, or does the soundboard and bridge assembly vibrate like a loudspeaker, or is something else at play, or a combination?

(I’ve been following this topic with some interest. It’s been around before: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1419415/Searchpage/1/Main/101923/Words/Di+Santo/Search/true/Re:%20Stone%20Tone%20%28Granite%29%20piano.html#Post1419415
I wasn’t really planning on commenting on this topic but since I’ve kind of allowed myself to be drawn in….)

The soundboard functions something like a loudspeaker diaphragm. The energy source is the vibrating strings; their energy is coupled through the bridge to the soundboard panel. Look underneath your piano and observe the ends of the ribs; this is the soundboard’s analog to the loudspeakers cone surround. It’s not an exact analogy but it’s close.

Everything attached to the system affects how it vibrates. The string plane—due to its stiffness and the fact that it is usually set up to actually press down against the bridge—impedes its otherwise free motion. That is, the soundboard’s vibrating characteristics are different when the strings are not attached than they are after the strings are installed.

The mass of the bridge affects how the soundboard system vibrates; as does—though to a much lesser degree—its stiffness.

In this case—i.e., the granite bridge—the mass of the bridges is being increased and the termination efficiency of the speaking (vibrating) strings is being changed. The stiffness of the bridges is also being changed but various tests have shown that, beyond a certain point, this has relatively little to do with soundboard performance.

I’ll pass on the claim that “Utilizing the stored energy within the atoms of the crystalline matrix of the stone provides a faster response and even clear sound with minimal to no percussiveness.” I’ll also pass on the claims of “healing” attached to tuning the piano to a pitch of A=444 Hz. These claims have been made for ages with no scientific validation that I am aware of.

In all variations made to the traditional piano archetype the laws of physics must still prevail; adding mass to the soundboard system—in this case via the bridge—increases the mechanical impedance of the system. This alters the energy transfer rate from the strings to the soundboard assembly with the result that initial attack volume is reduced and the rate of decay is reduced which we translate into increased sustain.

Increasing the termination efficiency will also alter the energy mix that will be transferred from the strings to the soundboard assembly but the direct effect is a little less clear. A lot of testing would have to be done to determine just what is happening as a direct result of the change in termination efficiency. In theory a less lossy termination should transfer more high partial energy to the system but the more massive bridge is less able to respond so I don’t really know what the ultimate response would be. I’d want to reduce the number of variables and measure and compare.

Basically I agree with B’986: the same result can be obtained in other, probably less cumbersome, ways. (I’m not a stonemason so I really have no idea how many hours it takes to produce one of these bridges. It’s probably longer than the few minutes it takes to produce a traditional wood bridge, though.) While I generally encourage innovative people to explore their ideas and dreams I can say with reasonable certainty that this one will never reach large-scale, or even limited-scale, production. Given some development it might be producible on a custom, more-or-less one-off basis but the technologies necessary to cut and process stone to make piano bridges are not going to make it to the factory floor. My recommendation for a market would be to fit these bridges to custom-remanufactured or instruments and market the difference. In the end I suspect it will achieve about the same level of market penetration as have the pianos utilizing glass soundboards.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#1961741 - 09/20/12 05:42 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Del]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted by Del
Originally Posted by OperaTenor
Originally Posted by Emmery
Originally Posted by David Jenson

...What I found curious was the lack of pictures of the stone bridge.


Most likely because it isn't patent(pending) protected, or the masonry tool kits for the techs have not been compiled yet.

Even so, I suspect some pseudo engineer with a last name similar to the sound a dropped fork makes already has visions of the new and improved Mark 2 Glanite Bridge system in the works.


I didn't know a fork made a "Fandrich" sound when dropped!

laugh

I think I've just been insulted--but I'm not sure why...?

ddf


Just a bad joke to get your attention...



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#1961947 - 09/21/12 03:47 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Mariosa said some interesting thing in that regard : he can "hear/feel" the speed of tone going thru the wood in the soundboard/bridge assembly./

I also have that sensation I even can imagine that when listening to a recording.

I suggest that we need some damping at the bridge level so the energy is not reflected too fast. When we hear the whisles created by improper string mating it is a very short wave reflected from the hammer to the agrafe because the hammer cannot damp it.

I suspect a similar process may happen within the bridge himself adding that high pitched components in the tone attack that oblige the pianist to delay it with the sustain pedal, as i seem to notice on the video samples (I admit the more sonorous instrument, but I hear an use of the sustain pedal that is twice on the stone bridged piano than on the "normal" grand)

As often heard, "more is not always better, " etc...
The wire by itself is very certainly prone to produce a lot of parasitic tone in regard of its fixations and terminations, we dont have the musical use for, I often have noticed in "optimized' instruments how too much high pitched tones where present at any level of dynamics, and that, at last is not usual to my ears, nor I am sure it is advantageous.



Last edited by Kamin; 09/21/12 03:48 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1961967 - 09/21/12 06:19 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Emmery]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,822
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Roy123  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,822
Massachusetts
Originally Posted by Emmery
Speed of sound in wood across the grain is about 1/3-1/5 that of going with the grain. With the application of a wood bridge there will be some losses due to grain orientation we need to carve it. I believe this is where a material that has uniform sound transmission qualities in every direction would be more suitable than wood which has limitations in this respect.


The speed of sound through the bridge is of no particular interest or importance. The bridge is short, string to board. There is no appreciable time delay. Additionally, time delay does not correlate with loss. Materials and arrangements with large time delay can have low loss, and vice versa.

The bridge mostly needs to be stiff enough so that forces due to string motions can be transferred to the soundboard panel with little to no loss. Consider a traditional bridge in which the string bears both on steel pins and directly on the wooden surface of the bridge itself. The surface area of the string where it is in contact with the wood is very small. If there is any compression of the wood in the bridge it will occur right at the contact point. If adequate stiffness is of any concern, one need only use some time of bridge agraffe in which the string's forces are spread out over a larger area of the bridge.

Last edited by Roy123; 09/21/12 06:20 AM.
#1963550 - 09/24/12 06:18 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
To all who attended,

Special thanks goes out to Thomas Zoells for organizing our event, and to all the members of the PTG and others that attended our presentation @ the Pianoforte Chicago.

Thank you for your interest in Stonetone®. We look forward to meeting you all again on this exciting journey.


Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1963641 - 09/24/12 10:46 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted by Robert Di Santo
To all who attended,

Special thanks goes out to Thomas Zoells for organizing our event, and to all the members of the PTG and others that attended our presentation @ the Pianoforte Chicago.

Thank you for your interest in Stonetone®. We look forward to meeting you all again on this exciting journey.



So what was the verdict Robert? How did people respond to the stonebridge experience. Was there some comparative way they could assess the change?

I remember a presentation done at a piano dealers a few years back where he was introducing a new line of vertical pianos which had an open soundboard at the bottom. Several of us techs stood behind a partition as someone went around playing on about 7-8 different pianos and we tried to match what we heard with the pianos listed on a checklist. Most of us were fairly impressed with the piano and it was a really good way to honestly showcase it to us.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#1963660 - 09/24/12 11:22 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bob Newbie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
My slotted peghead classical guitar produces more "sustain' than my steel string "f" hole archtop
"but" when I attach a small brass "c" clamp to the archtop headstock sustain is dramatically increased
which rivals the classical guitar with open headstock..it would be interesting to see a clamp made of
granite if it would have the same or greater sustain than the brass "C" clamp.. smile

#1963766 - 09/24/12 02:36 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Bob Newbie]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,822
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Roy123  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,822
Massachusetts
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
My slotted peghead classical guitar produces more "sustain' than my steel string "f" hole archtop
"but" when I attach a small brass "c" clamp to the archtop headstock sustain is dramatically increased
which rivals the classical guitar with open headstock..it would be interesting to see a clamp made of
granite if it would have the same or greater sustain than the brass "C" clamp.. smile


Given the small clamping area of the c-clamp, one would have to assume that you were adding mass, not stiffness to the headstock. The density of brass is over 3 times that of granite.

#1963907 - 09/24/12 06:48 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
Emmery,

Our presentation started @ 7 p.m. and ended @ 9:00 p.m. The questions the folks asked were answered in correlation to Dr. Richard Bosworths performance. I also displayed pictures for reference that showed the (patented) internal apparatus that works in conjunction with the facade of the guitars I've produced that had a direct relationship to the bridge pins interacting to the pianos granite bridge.

There were no shortage of questions while every inquiry had several answers for each question directly explaining how, why, and when..

45 minutes before the end of our presentation folks played our prototype piano to get a true perspective while the questions continued as they witnessed several other folks playing at the same time.

The wood bridge comparison piano was a handmade 7' Shigeru Kawai.

This presentation was thorough and informative from a manufacturing level to restoration issues.

There was a full room of folks that left with a plethora of informative facts of the Stonetone® Technologies.

Once this 9' Baldwin is completed, we'll have a better result since were working with a much better quality piano.


Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964343 - 09/25/12 02:42 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 281
adamp88 Offline
Full Member
adamp88  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 281
Omaha, NE
With due respect, I don't know that I'd agree with the "thorough" nature of the presentation. In fact, my biggest take away from the presentation was disappointment that there wasn't more thorough scientific understanding behind the product and how it affects the piano. Nearly all scientific inquiry was referred back to comments made by two NASA scientists who were not present and who stated (in quotes provided to us here in this thread) that they themselves were not familiar with the physics of the piano. Several questions received answers that either didn't address the actual question or did so only tangentially. I would go so far as to say most technical questions were left, at best, only partially answered due to a lack of technical knowledge of the piano.

The result of the granite bridge is indeed a marked improvement in sustain (at the cost of tone quality, in my opinion), but the granite itself is incidental after the weight it provides, as any bridge of equal weight would offer similar if not identical results. That granite is "of the earth" offers no benefit in a piano bridge, and plenty of negatives when it comes to mass production and long term care of a piano.


Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
ASB Piano Service
Omaha, NE
#1964454 - 09/25/12 06:31 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
Adam,

You were confused it seems and weren't part of the folks who played the piano afterwards or conversed with Richard Bosworth on any of the performance particulars that were answered pertained to restoration issues etc. like the other folks did. As stated during the presentation, our patent pending application is pending until early spring 2013 so limited information couldn't be divulged @ this time. Stonetone® is here to stay in lieu of any naysayers. Opinions are just that so your entitled to yours and thank you for attending. The piano speaks for itself.

Last edited by Robert Di Santo; 09/25/12 06:33 PM.

Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964849 - 09/26/12 02:58 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 281
adamp88 Offline
Full Member
adamp88  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 281
Omaha, NE
Robert,

Actually I did play the piano afterwards. And I'll probably drop by Pianoforte soon to try it again with less background noise present. Again, I readily agree to the marked improvement in sustain. I do have some concerns about how it affects the overall tone and character of the piano's sound, which is why I'd like to try it again in a quieter setting. I remain unconvinced as to the suitability (chiefly in terms of ease of production, service, and long-term care) of granite for bridge making. Hopefully receiving your patent will allow you to speak directly and at greater length to those concerns.

And no, I wasn't confused. To clarify my earlier comments about questions being answered insufficiently, "it's practically fused to the board" doesn't at all answer the question "what happens in 20 years when the board has changed shape but the bridge hasn't?" "It's not that bad... but it's $30K a slab" doesn't really answer the question of "how practical is this for a mass production application?" (or perhaps it does but not in the way you'd hoped to). And as for my concerns with technical knowledge of the piano, sufficient technical knowledge of the soundboard's structure and function should have been enough to dissuade any further research into granite ribs.

Lastly, I humbly suggest that you find another way of interacting with skeptics than condescension and insults (at least on a message board). If your product is going to have a future in pianos, you're going to need the support of the technical community behind it, and insulting the skeptics (which at this point includes the vast majority of piano technicians) isn't going to help your cause.



Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
ASB Piano Service
Omaha, NE
#1964966 - 09/26/12 06:11 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
You may be too sensitive for this discussion Adam..
Thanks for the laugh, and to those sensitive folks who aren't able to conduct constructive criticism ( which happens) don't bother, because I don't have time to respond to ignorance.
30k for a slab is not what was said.
What was said was that we bonded 2 medias together to acquire the mass needed while we felt using a single mass of 3" thickness would be better but only if we were to do 6 or more bridges would this be applicable and justify the cost.
I think you may need to play the piano many more times to get a grip on really what is happening since Thomas Zoells and Dr. Richard Bosworth both agree this is a revolutionary concept that needs refinement which also was stated during the presentation..

Last edited by Robert Di Santo; 09/26/12 06:23 PM.

Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964975 - 09/26/12 06:43 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
Qubec, Canada
Calling other posters ignorant? Maybe you should leave public relations in your company to others Mr Di Santo.

Last edited by accordeur; 09/26/12 06:45 PM. Reason: clarity

Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#1964980 - 09/26/12 07:07 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
Ignorance is Bliss Jean don't take it personally, pay attention and you may learn something here.


Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964981 - 09/26/12 07:09 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
The bridge ensures a tight connection and optimal transmission of sound vibrations (ENERGY) between the strings and the soundboard.

DURING OUR PRESENTATION and since I have understood the function of the bridge in a piano everyone I have talked with on this discussion calls the bridge everything other than what it actually is. Correct term " Transducer " see below of common descriptions and which one fits this application using stone..





definition of a conductor:

A material or element that allows free movement of electrons and therefore allows easy flow of electricity. Most conductors are metals.




definition of transmitter: 1. a person who transmits
1. a thing that transmits; specif.,
a. the part of a telegraphic instrument by which messages are sent
b. the part of a telephone, behind or including the mouthpiece, that converts speech sound into electric impulses for transmission
c. the apparatus that generates radio waves, modulates their amplitude or frequency, and transmits them by means of an antenna



Definition of a transducer: A substance or device, such as a piezoelectric crystal, microphone, or photoelectric cell, that converts input energy of one form into output energy of another.



Definition of a pressurized transducer: 1) What is a pressure transducer? A pressure transducer is a transducer that converts pressure into an analog electrical signal.

2)Pressure applied to the pressure transducer produces a deflection of the diaphragm which introduces strain. The strain will produce an electrical resistance change proportional to the pressure.

3)
Most pressure transducers feature an accuracy of High stability and high accuracy. pressure transducers can offer errors as low as 0.05% of full scale. Although more expensive than general purpose transducers, they may be the only option if high precision is required.

Last edited by Robert Di Santo; 09/26/12 07:09 PM.

Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964986 - 09/26/12 07:19 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Originally Posted by Robert Di Santo
You may be too sensitive for this discussion Adam.. Thanks for the laugh, and to those sensitive folks who aren't able to conduct constructive criticism ( which happens) don't bother, because I don't have time to respond to ignorance.


While it is understandable for you to defend what you've obviously worked hard for, these kinds of responses come across as immature and are not going to win you any friends. Adam has valid concerns, which you are unwise to dismiss, especially since they are shared by other qualified tuner-technicians (including one person on here who actually designs, redesigns, and builds pianos for a living).

While I happen to disagree with Adam about the effects of the bridge being a detriment to tone, I was bothered by the apparent lack of understanding with respect to soundboard physics. Mass and stiffness of a soundboard assembly have immense impact on attack and sustain, and by using a granite bridge, you are adding a lot of both. If you are serious about refining your product, I recommend reading "Voicing the Soundboard with Weights and Riblets", which was published in the PTG Journal in the August 2007 issue.

You should also acquaint yourself with other literature on piano design (specifically soundboards) by Del Fandrich, Ron Overs, or anyone else who has expertise in that area. You need this knowledge if you keep doing these presentations because technicians always ask tough questions, especially if they catch you saying something untrue.


#1964993 - 09/26/12 07:41 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
Thank you beethoven986.
I have several sources who have suggested the same as you have and for very good reasons since there will be more presentations in the future.
I am the inventor of the Stonetone® technologies and relize I need to have more perspective on the language used of the folks in these piano forums being I am a jouneyman in my trade than a piano technician.
I work with several piano professionals where they clue me in on pertinent questions as to why and so on.
Thanks again for the informative links.


Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964995 - 09/26/12 07:45 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
Qubec, Canada
Originally Posted by Robert Di Santo
Ignorance is Bliss Jean don't take it personally, pay attention and you may learn something here.


Pay attention here and YOU will learn something.


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#1964998 - 09/26/12 07:52 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
Jean, put a sock in it already .. seems you are the one needs knowledge on this topic. Not many folks understand the physics of granite, try the giza pyramids for starters..

Last edited by Robert Di Santo; 09/26/12 07:54 PM.

Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1964999 - 09/26/12 07:54 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Your definition, an uncited quote from WiKi, is incorrect in this application. A transducer changes one form of energy to another. That is not the case in a piano bridge. A piano bridge transmits mechanical energy, vibration, and does not change the form of energy.

It is you sir, who are rude and immature in your insistance to prove others wrong, even though they possess far greater understanding and knowledge of the specific application of a piano bridge.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1965001 - 09/26/12 07:57 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
sir have you played one? thats what I thought. my definition is correct and trumps yours by geological physicists conclusions far more credible than your assumptions. Don't be such a smarty Marty.

Last edited by Robert Di Santo; 09/26/12 07:58 PM.

Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
#1965002 - 09/26/12 07:58 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
Qubec, Canada
Ok I'll bite.

Nah.... changed my mind.


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#1965003 - 09/26/12 07:58 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
I rest my case.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1965007 - 09/26/12 08:01 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member
Robert Di Santo  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
United States
Our entry level prototype can be seen and played @ the pianoforte Chicago if you need to make your own decision if that is your choice, otherwise these type a comments are moot without the physical prototype in front of you. Good nite smile


Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®
Page 4 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Problem with Kawai MP11SE
by Velluth. 12/11/17 02:10 AM
Undesired side effect of great VSTs
by Osho. 12/11/17 12:43 AM
New Mapes IGS wire coils look old!
by synthnut. 12/10/17 11:20 PM
Opinion on wrist/slur motion in a video
by wirecat. 12/10/17 09:45 PM
MP11 or MP11 SE setup
by dpilot83. 12/10/17 09:42 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,201
Posts2,678,203
Members89,262
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0