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Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) #1953116
09/02/12 07:11 PM
09/02/12 07:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
C
c-piano Offline OP
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c-piano  Offline OP
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C

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
Hello. I found a new Seiler ED-168 Virtuoso grand piano at the local piano store for $16,000 (tax not included). I tried it out and really liked it, but I have no idea if this is a good deal or not. Also, I do not know much about Seiler grand piano. The salesman said that the parts are made in Germany and assembled in Indonesia.

I got a super slimy salesman who was really annoying, so I decided to come home and research about Seiler pianos before I make a decision.

Does anyone have any ideas regarding Seiler grand pianos and their prices?

Thank you smile

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
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Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1953159
09/02/12 09:40 PM
09/02/12 09:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 235
J
jawhitti Offline
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jawhitti  Offline
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Posts: 235
I've never played a Seiler but they appear to be a midrange piano made by Samick[0,1]. Seiler was originally a German company but was aquired by Samick in 2008 and they do indeed appeared to be built in Indonesia. It looks to me like Seiler competes with Pramberger and some of the other Chinese brands like Perzina, Brodmann or even other Samick builds like Knabe or Kohler and Campbell.

RE price you checked out pianobuyer.com? Your price on the Seiler is exactly 1/3 off the suggested price of $25,000 suggested by [2], which generally qualifies is a pretty good deal. What exactly did the price include? A bench, delivery, a free tuning or two?

Finally - if you search this site there are a few threads mentioning the ED-168. Frankly I find it easier to just use google to search the site as shown in [3] but of course there is a search box on this very page.

Good luck,
Jason




[0] http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring12/44.html
[1] http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring12/191.html
[2] http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring12/245.html
[3] go to google and search e.g. "site:pianowork.com Seiler"

Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: jawhitti] #1953299
09/03/12 08:45 AM
09/03/12 08:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
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c-piano Offline OP
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c-piano  Offline OP
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Jason,

Thank you for your reply. The price includes a bench, shipping and one free turning.

I googled and found the websites you mentioned. I was not sure how accrate those prices are...

Anybody I know does not own those cheaper grand pianos made in China/Korea/Indonesia. It is a bit scary to buy something I am not too familiar with. I usually practice with Steinway, Mason & Hamlin or Yamaha at the college. I really want to have my own piano at home, but these brands are out of my budget.

I asked my friends, professors and a piano technician at school, and they are all negative about economic grand pianos.

Well, I should do more research and think about it. I wish I had more money to spend on a piano!

Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1953303
09/03/12 08:57 AM
09/03/12 08:57 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,938
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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Steve Cohen  Offline
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The price range in Piano Buyer is usually very representative of the market. However, the new, Fall 2012 edition will be out in the next couple of weeks and some prices have gone up.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1953640
09/04/12 12:37 AM
09/04/12 12:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
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Kurtmen  Offline
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Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
Welcomed C-Piano,
The ED-168 Virtuoso it is musically a very successful instrument as SMC has been able to properly manufacture this Seiler scale design. The design has been part of the Seiler family of pianos that was re-developed in 2005 in Kitzingen prior to the takeover by SMC. The company puts a lot of attention in maintaining high quality standards and applying manufacturing techniques properly. However the back-bone is in the great design of these instruments.
Prices could fluctuate depending on a number of factors; 16K it is a good price for this piano.

The ED-168 offers the typical sound of small Seiler pianos. Clean powerful bass registers; the mid and upper registers have sort of a strong attack and very gradual changes in tonal quality across the dynamic range. The pianos tend to have good sustain and not much reverb. The tone is clean and defined.
I have seen many ED168 across the country; quality control has been excellent at the factory in Indonesia as the pianos arrived to the dealers in very good condition but yet they require minor regulation of the action.
The most important factor about these instruments is the design that leads to the characteristics of the tone in Seiler pianos. This model is a great piano in the price range.

Last edited by Kurtmen; 09/04/12 12:41 AM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1953890
09/04/12 03:41 PM
09/04/12 03:41 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,127
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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Rich Galassini  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,127
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Dear C-Piano,

First I must say that the only exposure I have had to the ED-168 is at a piano technicians convention and Roger Jolly himself showed it to me (right before we had a sandwich together).

The instrument can perform. It is that simple.

Second - to be fair, I believe that Roger himself prepped the piano for display, so I definitely saw the instrument in it's best light.

Good luck,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1953930
09/04/12 04:43 PM
09/04/12 04:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 38
K
K-52SM Offline
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K-52SM  Offline
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K

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 38
Are there still any German made Seiler Pianos And are they available in the USA??

Last edited by K-52SM; 09/04/12 04:43 PM.
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: Steve Cohen] #1953962
09/04/12 05:59 PM
09/04/12 05:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
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c-piano Offline OP
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c-piano  Offline OP
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C

Joined: Sep 2012
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Steve,

Thank you for the comment. If the price range in Piano Buyer is pretty accurate, $16000 must be a good deal!

Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: Kurtmen] #1953968
09/04/12 06:03 PM
09/04/12 06:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
C
c-piano Offline OP
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c-piano  Offline OP
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C

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
Kurtmen,

I really appreciate your detailed comment on ED 168! smile I am going back to the store sometime soon, and decide which one to buy.

I also liked Pramberger JP series at the store. It will be under 16K and I could get a bigger one than ED 168.

Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: Rich Galassini] #1953969
09/04/12 06:07 PM
09/04/12 06:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
C
c-piano Offline OP
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c-piano  Offline OP
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C

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
Rich,

Thank you for your comment! Yes, I think the ED-168 can perform really well. I just wish I could try it out more at the store.

I should go back to the store!

Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: K-52SM] #1953970
09/04/12 06:10 PM
09/04/12 06:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
C
c-piano Offline OP
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c-piano  Offline OP
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C

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
K-52SM

According to my slimy salesman at the piano store, they could get the German made Seiler pianos. It could cost 2-3 times more than the ones assembled in Indonesia, he said.

Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: Kurtmen] #1953981
09/04/12 06:48 PM
09/04/12 06:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,037
San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
1000 Post Club Member
master88er  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,037
San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted by Kurtmen
Welcomed C-Piano,
The ED-168 Virtuoso it is musically a very successful instrument as SMC has been able to properly manufacture this Seiler scale design. The design has been part of the Seiler family of pianos that was re-developed in 2005 in Kitzingen prior to the takeover by SMC. The company puts a lot of attention in maintaining high quality standards and applying manufacturing techniques properly. However the back-bone is in the great design of these instruments.
The most important factor about these instruments is the design that leads to the characteristics of the tone in Seiler pianos. This model is a great piano in the price range.


Hmmmmm...sounds like the walls of your glass house are being shattered. Just sayin' wink

Last edited by master88er; 09/04/12 06:49 PM.

Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

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Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1954389
09/05/12 04:16 PM
09/05/12 04:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
Quote
Are there still any German made Seiler Pianos And are they available in the USA??


Yes, the factory in Germany is in full swing. Seiler Pianos Made In Germany are available in the USA.

[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]

Last edited by Kurtmen; 09/05/12 05:34 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1954494
09/05/12 08:19 PM
09/05/12 08:19 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,127
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,127
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Kurtmen,

That picture is from your photobucket account. How old is that picture? And what does it have to do with what Seiler is doing today in Germany?


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1954581
09/06/12 02:29 AM
09/06/12 02:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 457
Münster, Germany
G
Gregor Offline
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Gregor  Offline
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G

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 457
Münster, Germany
The Seiler factory in Germany is realy in full swing and they are growing. The other day I saw an add in Europiano offering jobs and apprenticeships in Kitzingen.

The pianos are available in USA, but obviously these are different models than here in Germany. Here we have the Eduard Seiler upright line. These pianos have Eduard Seiler as fallboard name and are identical with the Seiler branded line. The only difference is, that the action in the Seiler line is Renner and the action in the Eduard Seiler line comes from Asia but is built in in Kitzingen. Both lines are completely made in Germany with German parts only (excepted the action in the Eduard Seiler line). The third production line is called Johannes Seiler and is completely made in Indonesia, but prepped in Kitzingen for the sale in Germany.

Gregor


piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
www.weldert.de
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: Rich Galassini] #1954856
09/06/12 01:24 PM
09/06/12 01:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
by R. Galassini
Quote
That picture is from your photobucket account. How old is that picture?


I got these pictures this Summer at a presentation I had with Ludger de Graaff (Seiler Betriebsleiter).

The pictures are from my photobucket. You are right...
Photobucket is really cool they let you upload pictures even if they are one day old.


Quote
And what does it have to do with what Seiler is doing today in Germany?


These pictures are in relation to people working at the factory in Kitzingen. You see Richie...


Posted By Gregor:
Quote
The Seiler factory in Germany is realy in full swing and they are growing. The other day I saw an add in Europiano offering jobs and apprenticeships in Kitzingen.


Thank you Gregor. Also there was an article in regard to Seiler making a comeback where Mr. De Graaff speaks about the current factory in Germany.



Last edited by Kurtmen; 09/06/12 01:39 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: Kurtmen] #1955232
09/07/12 03:55 AM
09/07/12 03:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 457
Münster, Germany
G
Gregor Offline
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G

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 457
Münster, Germany
Originally Posted by Kurtmen
Also there was an article in regard to Seiler making a comeback where Mr. De Graaff speaks about the current factory in Germany.


Yes, in the journal Das Musikinstrument from April 2012:

http://www.das-musikinstrument.de/5220.0.html?&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=29931&tx_ttnews[backPid]=5216&cHash=168271b348


piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
www.weldert.de
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1955234
09/07/12 03:57 AM
09/07/12 03:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 457
Münster, Germany
G
Gregor Offline
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Gregor  Offline
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G

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 457
Münster, Germany
Sorry, link does not work. I googled for Seiler comeback. I have the reprint fo that article because Seiler sent it to all Seiler dealers. I am one of them wink


piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
www.weldert.de
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1955380
09/07/12 10:28 AM
09/07/12 10:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Supply Offline
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Supply  Offline
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Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Copying and pasting the whole URL works for me. But magazine articles on the web can disappear overnight....

Last edited by Supply; 09/07/12 10:59 AM.
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1955384
09/07/12 10:38 AM
09/07/12 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,674
Danville, California
F
Furtwangler Offline
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Posts: 1,674
Danville, California
Nicht gut


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Price for Seiler ED 168 Virtuoso (New) [Re: c-piano] #1955559
09/07/12 05:07 PM
09/07/12 05:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
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Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 703
San Mateo, CA
http://www.das-musikinstrument.de/5220.0.html?&tx_ttnews=29931&cHash=168271b348

The link would not display the article but once you reached the website enter in the box that reads *suche:* (search) the word Seiler.
That should take you to the article.

Last edited by Kurtmen; 09/07/12 05:47 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com

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