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To untangle the absurdity and avoid confusion:

- e-mail is a new communication device. As with any means of communication, people have to choose how to use it. The same happened with the telephone when it was invented. You know what times not to phone people, you learn how to leave messages on answering machines, etc.

- there are conventions for using e-mail in a practical manner, and these are still being formed. Googling should bring up some straightforward and logical ideas.

- any time that there is communication between two individuals, whether friends, teacher and student, parent and teacher, or employee and employer, the parties will have to decide what is practical and useful. The same is true here. What arrangement is made, and what the guidelines are, should be determined by the teacher who is after all the guiding party. And this will vary according to the situation.

Any statement that says these communications will be of some single particular nature, makes no sense to me.

I would appreciate this not being turned into a joke. I should be doing other things and don't really have the time.

So am I.

I am simply attempting to offer a suggestion to EZPiano (whose sincere thread I am afraid we have destroyed), put forth my opinion on a tool that is all-too-often an instrument of MIS-communication, and have a little fun in the process.


Let us seriously consider this for a second. Most have already established that there is no musical or teaching benefit in having this adult student continue to bad-mouth his former teacher. In fact, as EZPiano surmises, it is becoming a destructive practice. So, first stop the bleeding, and then find the cut. Since the majority of said bad-mouthing has been through eMail, well -- isn’t it obvious?

What may not be quite so obvious, however, is this: When a teacher encourages student communication through eMail, that teacher is self-undermining a certain degree of her/his authority. S/he has metaphorically begun to socialize with her/his students. That MIGHT be fine, until one gets a student like our Mr. X here, who apparently enjoys the freedom of “one-sided communication” where he can rant to his heart’s content, without the modulating forces of a real conversation, where the other party might say, “Really? That sounds like an exaggeration.”, or, “What did you do to provoke that?”, or, “How might you handle that better if it comes up again?”

Thus, LoPresti’s Suggestion (does everyone like that word better?) #1: Nip eMail in the bud, or better yet, do not even give it out.

eMail, and its derivations, is certainly an electronic tool that has found pervasive use. I am not certain that it has any inherent “power”, as KeyString asserts, but I do know that people who feel inferior in some way attempt to use it as a great equalizer, imbuing them with a sort of power. The anonymity often encourages others to write things that they certainly cannot backup, and to carry on a dialog without any actual accountability. More to the point of this Forum, because eMail lacks those elements present in a personal conversation - emotion, expression, emphasis, accent, nuance, body language, irony, humor, disappointment, sadness, joy - it is a weak and shallow vehicle for real communication. Without the colorations of an actual, live discussion, eMail invites misunderstandings. And, is not CLEAR COMMUNICATIONS, leading to CORRECT UNDERSTANDINGS at the heart of most of the discussions on this precise Forum? Is that not the main complaint here? Not just this thread, but MOST threads?

And then, the notion of taking this relatively flimsy communication tool, and tweaking its use with the subtlety of timing responses, and the manipulation of others inherent in longer or shorter answers -- am I left alone here on earth? In what way does such manipulation foster better, truer, more effective COMMUNICATIONS?

Lastly, I sincerely hope that someone else enjoyed the fun I was attempting. Over the years, when things have become too absurd (thank you KeyString), turning the ludicrousness into fun has kept me going - some might say has kept me “arrogant”.

Ed

I will correct only one thing. When I write of tools being powerful, it is not some mystical thing. When we have e-mail, we do not have to phone somebody long distance across crackling lines and hope to have the time zone right, not pull the person out of a meeting, a shower or bed. We do not have to wait two weeks for a letter to reach someone, and two more weeks for an answer. If we need to communicate with somebody, we can compose a message which can be received within seconds, read at a time which is convenient for the other person, who can respond at his convenient.

That is what I meant by powerful tool of communication, and I would think that this is obvious.

I feel that some of what I wrote was either misrepresented or misunderstood. I cannot afford to spend my time clarifying, so this will have to be it.

It is interesting that you consider the person who pays your wages to be your "underling."

Seriously? From many of your other posts, Malkin, you seem like a pretty smart individual. Do you actually think my Flow Chart is real?

What for?

A young teacher shared what she knew, and it was turned into a joke. To what end?

Bahaha. I suspect my response was the brunt of this joke, but I think I am the only other person who found it funny. Loved it.

Another midnight iPhone session here so apologies for the lack of further quoting. I stand by what I was explaining about the subtleties of electronic communications (Did I ever mention that it is IT that I teach?). This is a relatively new form of communications, if you don't get the subtleties I can suggest two good reasons. Firstly, you have yet learned them and secondly, they are not yet as set I stone as more traditional forms of communication.

In face to face communication we readily accept body language as an integral part of the conversation. A student sitting crossed-arms with a scowl saying "I don't want to do that" is very different from one with fingers poised and a smile saying "I don't want to do that".
Electronic communication doesn't had body language, so we do need to look at what it does have. Good electronic communication must use capitalization, paragraphs, salutations, subject lines, language formality, length and speediness of response, levels of off-topic subject matter, acronyms, and even those horrid smiley faces :P. They are all powerful tools that make emails and text messages valid lines of communication.

So when my teachers pops me a response within minutes I will assume she doesn't mind a quick question. If he sends me a long response the same day I will assume she doesn't mind long questions. If she ignores my email, sends a short response four days later, I can read between the lines. (in this case I would know my superior teacher was an old fart who probably still uses hotmail ... And that was very tongue-in-cheek).

AlsoTom, I found your initial explanation of electronic communication informative and important. Conventions are still in their infancy and rules of etiquette are still being written up. Personally I find body language to be double edged. It is possible to become tongue tied and overwhelmed, especially as the student. There are times that I find it much easier to get my thoughts into writing rather than becoming a babbling fool. In interactions with teachers, some have also preferred to do some things in writing, when an idea can be complicated. Everything depends on the context and the people involved. Isn't it wonderful that we have so many choices these days?

"Self-undermining"???

I keep e-mail correspondence with several students, and they're 20-25 years younger than I am. Am I "self-undermining" by e-mailing them their assignments?

So, what should I do instead? Use postal mail? Call them and leave a voice message?

Does this mean when I text my students, I'm enabling them not to practice or respect me?

I think the solution is simple...

1) Email students if you must.

2) If it doesn't work, don't email that student anymore.

3) Don't have rules about this stuff.

Hi AZN,

If you are already doing it, and it works without problems, then I agree, why not keep it up?

EZPiano is having an issue, to which (I believe) eMail is contributing. So why foster that?

I know there are gradations between the two cases, like what exactly you are using eMail for, how often messages are exchanged, nature of the messages, how many words they contain, and how long one waits to reply.

To me, there is an unspoken socialization associated with eMail that may or may not be a healthy thing to promote between teacher and student. Obviously, I, for one, would avoid it if I were still teaching.

And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.

The question is not obvious, and it contains a number of assumptions. Do you know personally how this teacher works? In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.

Thanks!

Ah, KeyString, but you seem fine in attacking virtually everything I write. Where is your self-righteous respect for this "colleague"?

The topic is not about the value of emailing, in general, so LoPresti is going to insist that we adhere to the exact points of the OP. Anything you have to say that is an off-shoot from that, going in another direction, will be ignored, distorted or ridiculed.

I specifically tell my students, even the youngest, that it is their job to help me make their assignments, which we work on together. And I tell them that it is their job to make sure they do not leave without that assignment, which I print out at the end of each lesson.

But they are human, and now and then one leaves without the assignment. And I am human. I have printed out the wrong one, or I have rushed one out and so have been as much or more to blame for not taking care of the printout. They are all on my computer, and if the parent of a child contacts me saying that the assignment did not get in their books, we can fix that in seconds. Attach file, let them print it out at home. And that helps me, because the fact that they ASKED shows that they are paying attention.

Two of my most responsible adults emailed me sometime in the last couple months, reasonable requests that I could take care of in attachments in seconds.

We’ve talked for a year or two, and it has been my impression that you are rather strict, so I sincerely doubt you are being taken advantage of.

There is incredible irony in being instructed in how to use technology by technophobes.

Keystring is one of the least combative people I have ever known.

You once told me that my students would be humiliated in a music school because of what I teach.

At that time you already knew that I have taught for several decades.

In what universe did you think that was respectful?

Again and again you twist other people’s words and cherry-pick comments out of context.

You are asked to respond to a specific question, then you ignore that question and hammer home a point that has nothing to do with the question. And when challenged, you claim that you have no patience with the rest of us because we do not agree with you.

If you want respect, start treating other people with respect.

Gary,

I had a high amount of respect for you, too, until you started in with this silliness, and will not let it fade into history. We were discussing theory, as I recall, and you asserted, without qualification, that one could correctly spell a C7 chord with C, E, G, and A#. Around that same time, still discussing theory, you wrote that there were only three diminished seventh chords in total. Your decades of teaching not withstanding, I simply could not let that misinformation stand.

Here again from memory, my comment was something like, "If you actually teach that to your students, they will be laughed out of any music school in the country."

And then, as now, right or wrong, you continue to argue. Why, I am not sure.

Throughout this thread I have offered my thoughts, and gave reasons based on fact and experience. Where I disagreed with your statements it has never constituted an "attack". Your responses isolated some statements while ignoring others, so that the meaning was lost or altered. In one long post you made it appear that I was saying e-mail gave power in a sense of ego, and then used that - I corrected this by explaining the idea of tools of communication giving options = power. This was not acknowledged. It took me two paragraphs to correct that single misrepresentation. If it is due true misunderstanding then I don't mind the loss of time. But it was not acknowledged. When points are deliberately distorted, the writer is caught in a growing spiral of explanations which in turn get distorted - I cannot afford the time for that. It is exhausting and demoralizing. This is the point where I tried to bow out. NONE of what I wrote was ever an "attack".

Next a teacher gave feedback. Your response there not only appeared to be a joke, you even berated someone who took you seriously for not being smart enough to see it was a joke. This type of behaviour can destroy discussions and that is not fair to anyone. Those who take time out to try to help in a matter should not have that time wasted by mockery. Nor should anyone have to follow a carefully thought out post with much longer posts, re-explaining everything due to distortions.

I would have discussed the various ideas you put forth, but at that point I doubted your sincerity. I expected the same selective picking of my words which I am guessing is some kind of debate style. I find it disheartening. Some find debate invigorating: I suppose in competitive game scenarios it might be so for participants. If I feel anything it is not belligerence, but disappointment. There are things I would have written - did write - and deleted unposted in the conviction of not being heard.

Yesterday's post, where a competent senior teacher was being lectured on his practices did shock me. This time I did point out my observation. Your response was as above - not addressing the issue, but turning into the idea of attacks by me, and turning it around, period. I do not believe that what I wrote was disrespectful. I don't know what your profession is, so I don't know whether we are colleagues.

What I don't know, where I may give the benefit of the doubt, is where someone with such a gift for words, a high vocabulary, and obvious intelligence, could at the same time be blundering into the virtual world and genuinely not know what is offensive. I do think it's possible.

This whole thing saddens me. I don't often give up on things.

I personally like email a lot to communicate with students or with parents. Here is some benefit of email:
1. I can work on it only at the time I like, not in the middle of shopping, cleaning house or teaching
2. I can have some time to think about how to response to concerns or request of students or parents instead of being put on the spot.
3. I can look at my google calendar side by side when schedule a rescheduling so that I won’t make mistakes. If student calls me and I happen not have my calendar with me, I might remember the wrong time or dates.
4. I can keep a record of what has been told to parents in black and white in case of miscommunication happen. For example, when I take my Labor Day off and I like to make sure my students won’t show up and see no one at studio, I email them instead of calling them or remind them the lesson before. Guess what, one student did show up and the mother is not happy that I am not there, so I kindly remind her to read the email I sent out August 20. After reading the email she realize that I did remind her once during the lesson and again with email, then she knows that she forget and she won’t blame me for that.

I joined this thread with . . .




Even if I pay you a compliment . . .

. . . there is a rebuttal . . .



. . . and gain-say . . .



Gary joins in the festivities:


I try to have a little fun:


And it is met with thinly-veiled insults, masquerading as analysis -










I wrote a note back to Malkin . . .

. . . that you needed to criticize:


I responded to AZN’s question to me . . .

. . . and got a response from (guess who?) again:




To which Gary answers . . .


But that isn’t quite insulting enough, so he immediately follows up with :


If I did not know better, I might think I am being double-teamed.