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#1954018 - 09/04/12 10:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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For a moment you had me there. I thought Mr. Kitty had finally returned and was going to post his performance of the Chopin etudes that he promised us. I don't have any objection to a Valentina Lisista thread - all important topics get recycled here on the Forum many times over. What's disturbing is the ghostly presence of so many Forum figures from the past who have traveled on to other pastures. It's rather jarring and spooky at the same time, until I pay attention to the dates of their posts. Nor do I know what * * * means or why so many of these people have been brought back to life.

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#1954029 - 09/04/12 10:54 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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She plays some things well, but I disagree with many of her interpretations.

RE the Rach2 thing - the important thing is to play those opening chords with increasing intensity. Breaking, rolling, or just playing the chords straight isn't a big issue.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#1954036 - 09/04/12 11:31 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Numerian]  
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Originally Posted by Numerian
Nor do I know what * * * means or why so many of these people have been brought back to life.


I don't know what * * * means either, but it may mean something entirely different than ***, to which you were referring. (sorry, my humour is off tonight)


Professional pianist and piano teacher.
#1954038 - 09/04/12 11:40 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Numerian]  
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Originally Posted by Numerian
For a moment you had me there. I thought Mr. Kitty had finally returned and was going to post his performance of the Chopin etudes that he promised us.

Didn't he did post a video of Chopin 10/1 playing in his pajamas?

I rather liked the guy, shortly before he departed the board he asked for my email address and suggested we might meet up in Scotland, but I never heard anything after that.

Reading old threads can be interesting. I don't take back anything I posted above, but it was certainly nice to be reminded of Bassio. We PM'd quite a bit, talked about all kinds of stuff, and I am sorry he is no longer active.


Jason
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#1954045 - 09/04/12 11:52 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Arghhh]  
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Originally Posted by Arghhh

I don't know what * * * means either...

Quite simply '* * *' is in place of what the moderator deleted. I did see MarioToroOfficial's post before it was deleted, and it was nothing more than an angry and immature rant, the stuff you see all the time on Facebook.


Jason
#1954059 - 09/05/12 01:02 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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old threads are old. This should be closed and the reviver temp banned smokin


"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."
#1954201 - 09/05/12 11:21 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Mr_Kitty]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Kitty
lol she breaks the opening chords of rach 2.
don't DO that.... yes. rachmaninoff did it ONCE. that doesn't mean anyone else can;)if your hands are too small, play another piece! lol the rest of the concerto wasn't great either
why do so many famous pianists not deserve their fame?


That's so ignorant. Rachmaninoff did it in the ONE recording he made. He could reach it, so why do it? Partly to show that it's not a crime and because it adds different expression. "play another piece"... HAHA yeah because rach 2 is the only piece with big chords. Give me a break. It's just so ridiculous, I don't even know what to say except laugh..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1954202 - 09/05/12 11:24 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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Damn I didn't notice the thread was so old. Still, hard to believe such idiots sometimes.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1954234 - 09/05/12 12:33 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Damn I didn't notice the thread was so old.

Hah! I was wondering when you were going to spot that. laugh


Jason
#1954304 - 09/05/12 02:41 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: argerichfan]  
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Damn I didn't notice the thread was so old.

Hah! I was wondering when you were going to spot that. laugh


Some of us are such PW "junkies" (nerds?) that if we - well, I, at any rate - see a thread with two, three or four pages - or even 20 or 25 posts that wasn't there the last time I was on the site a few hours ago, I immediately check the dates. Sure enough, it's an old one, revived.

Not that, per se, there's anything wrong with reviving old threads. Quite often, however, the person who revives an old thread responds to a question that was asked by a person who has long disappeared from the forum and the response seems somewhat irrelevant.

One does wonder, though, in some cases that if the person reviving a thread that is four years old had to go back into the archives to find it, why s/he wouldn't realise that the horse is already dead.

Cheers!


BruceD
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#1954333 - 09/05/12 03:29 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: midss]  
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Originally Posted by midss
I must admit though, I think she has great technical control. I was really mesmerized watching her hands, and I even picked up a few tips on fingering in her rendition of La Campanella:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TV1Np1VXKI

I'm not crazy about the way she plays this musically (I prefer Yundi Li's best) but I still find it helpful watching her- technique is clear.

That link was broken, so I went to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwc-nmyPm4I

It's decent. But she simplifies some of the most difficult passages (possibly because her hand is too small, I'll give her that). Look at 0:53-59. She only plays the top note in the descending line. It's MUCH easier that way, but I know the 42 stretch can be extremely hard. My hand can barely reach it. Evidence for this support comes at 2:45, when she uses 1-4-5 instead of 1-3-4. I have to use 1-4-5 also, and it's a bear.. She also looks a little stiff on the last octave recapitulation, and it sounds that way, too. The reason I bring all this up is this: I'm not sure hers is the example I would use for "proper technique".

Here is one of my favorite interpretations of La Campanella:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0U73NRSIkw
Kissin, Proms, 1997

In terms of speed, I've never heard it played faster. He plays it in just under 4 minutes.

I also like this, completely different rendition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lejBlKS2t_w
Lang Lang, no idea, no idea

Start at 0:24 to get to the music. Ignore the fog machine and screaming fans. Listen to the music. Very nice and very different from Kissin's, particularly the opening.


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#1954384 - 09/05/12 05:02 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Derulux]  
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I do not care. I just enjoy her performances. smile

Pavel

#1954461 - 09/05/12 08:18 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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She doesn't have small hands though.

#1954649 - 09/06/12 08:04 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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Originally Posted by pianojerome
Quote
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
There are many reasons why classical music appeals to a small (and increasingly smaller, alas) group of people. I can't quite escape the feeling that one of those reasons is the hypercritical cannibalism ( wink ) often on display on forums like this. It makes classical music seem like elitist entertainment, and its adherents like snobs for whom nothing is quite good enough.

If I'm reading Sam correctly, that is what seems implied in his gentle slap on the collective wrist.
smile

Here is my review of Valentina Lisitsa.

1. She has recorded on DVD all 24 Chopin Etudes, which means that she has learned and played all 24 Chopin Etudes, and also that she has kept them all so well in her repertoire that she could (and did) record them all on one DVD.

2. She has learned and played, and maintains in her repertoire, all of the Beethoven Concertos; all of the Rachmaninov Concertos; all of the Chopin Concertos; both of the Shostakovich Concertos and 2 of the Liszt Concertos; 3 of the Prokofiev Concertos; 5 Mozart Concertos; and more.

3. She has on her website solo videos, which she recorded, of music that she learned and played by Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, and Rachmaninov.

4. She has achieved, and maintains, world-wide fame as a concert pianist, travelling all around the world to play the piano for people who pay to hear her play.

5. She has a professional duo partner, with whom she performs concerts for people who pay to hear her play.

6. She has her biography on wikipedia.

How many of us have any one of those points to our own credit?

Yes -- there are others who have done the same. Yes -- there are others whose interpretations some of us might prefer. Yes -- there are others whose achievements surpass even those of Valentina Lisitsa. No -- these facts do not diminish her tremendous achievements.

Now to the original point -- how do you know that she does not care about the musicality and interpretation of her music? How do you know that all she cares about is technique?

And why, given her very tremendous achievements, does she not deserve her fame?


"Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!".
Does not strike me as a genuine and fair assessment of the abilities of any musician.

I once told a woman considerably older than myself that I tried to play the piano. She laughed out loud at me. I asked her what was funny about that. She replied, "People only learn the piano to show off, it's a "look at me" thing, that's all!"

I was literally speechless. If there are those who believe the motivation for a person to play the piano is to show off they simply demonstrate how very little they understand about musicianship.

To then claim in the first statement of the OP that Lisitsa, "has no idea what music is" is so outrageous as to be either bizarre or plain stupid.

I admit I am an enormous fan, but I know she isn't perfect, but with her posts on YouTube, her relaying practice sessions live on the internet and her many interviews (show off!) she has given me more than any other famous pianist for my PERSONAL musical advancement. I am truly grateful to her for that.

I love her, long may she reign... I do wish she would play the 2 quavers at the end of the first ascending bars of Moonlight 3rd Movement!
But that incredible memory, that stunning ability, that slightly "off-the-wall" attitude.

A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

I think the comments in the OP is a bit of WUMMING to get a lot of reaction and massage an ego from the result.

In fact.... a bit of showing off.

#1954724 - 09/06/12 10:16 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD

One does wonder, though, in some cases that if the person reviving a thread that is four years old had to go back into the archives to find it, why s/he wouldn't realise that the horse is already dead.


Actually it makes me wonder how some people manage to get through life in general. crazy



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
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#1954849 - 09/06/12 02:05 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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I think she is very good on some of her Youtube "studio videos". I started to like Totentanz thanks to her. The Rach etude is great as well and shows individual character.
The Chopin etudes are good but none of them stand out, in the end I prefer various other pianists for most of the etudes.

Her performance in the Royal Albert Hall was kind of disappointing, a bit sloppy in places and rushed overall, but considering the circumstances I still think she did well.

If we're going to compare, I think Kissin is just as good technically and more expressive overall. And Kissin is a better live performer, but more experienced at that too.

Last edited by babama; 09/06/12 02:08 PM.
#1954865 - 09/06/12 02:40 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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RAH was rather sloppy, but when I saw her at Musikverein she played very well.

#1954899 - 09/06/12 03:39 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: debrucey]  
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Originally Posted by debrucey
She doesn't have small hands though.

Yah, I wish I knew that for certain, but I've never met her. From the videos I've seen, it appears she has similar hand size to me. Lang Lang's hand is a little bigger than mine, but barely. (I know this because I met him and shook his hand.) Still, at that particular size, a half inch span is a huge difference in comfort for minor tenths or large 42 stretches.

Originally Posted by slipperykeys
I once told a woman considerably older than myself that I tried to play the piano. She laughed out loud at me. I asked her what was funny about that. She replied, "People only learn the piano to show off, it's a "look at me" thing, that's all!"

I was literally speechless.

This is where my mouth gets me in trouble. I probably would have responded, "I am sorry to hear, Madam, that you have never tried to do anything worthwhile in your life."

Quote
A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

Centuries might be a bit of a stretch to say at this point.. Liszt is barely getting there now. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#1955445 - 09/07/12 01:50 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Derulux]  
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Originally Posted by Derulux

slipperykeys
Quote
A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

Centuries might be a bit of a stretch to say at this point.. Liszt is barely getting there now. wink


Had they had the internet and YouTube hundreds of years ago then I think many pianists would influence others just as centuries old music is still influencing opinion.

Wouldn't we like to see Mozart Bach etc and hear them play their music?

We may have been surprised how poor they were, we just don't know. But people in hundreds of years time should be able to see pianists, thanks to such sites as YouTube.

Because of recent technological advances I see no reason why all this stuff won't still be around in hundreds of years, Valentina Lisitsa's performance of the Schubert/Liszt "Schwanengesang" is iconic and I am sure will be seen many millions of times for who knows how long?

I admit that is conjecture, but does seem possible.

#1956937 - 09/10/12 01:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: slipperykeys]  
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Originally Posted by slipperykeys
Originally Posted by Derulux

slipperykeys
Quote
A great pianist and I am sure, a great influence on many amateurs for decades, if not centuries to come.

Centuries might be a bit of a stretch to say at this point.. Liszt is barely getting there now. wink


Had they had the internet and YouTube hundreds of years ago then I think many pianists would influence others just as centuries old music is still influencing opinion.

Wouldn't we like to see Mozart Bach etc and hear them play their music?

We may have been surprised how poor they were, we just don't know. But people in hundreds of years time should be able to see pianists, thanks to such sites as YouTube.

Because of recent technological advances I see no reason why all this stuff won't still be around in hundreds of years, Valentina Lisitsa's performance of the Schubert/Liszt "Schwanengesang" is iconic and I am sure will be seen many millions of times for who knows how long?

I admit that is conjecture, but does seem possible.

Absolutely, I would not preclude the possibility, but merely state that at this point in time, it's a stretch. wink

I think one of the reasons Liszt did not choose to record himself (when that technology began to emerge) is because the "legend" was greater than the "man". The same can be said of Babe Ruth. A very famous sportscaster reported that Ruth was indicating to the opposing team in the dugout that he had one strike left. But you put a picture up of him holding up a finger, and the next shot is a home run--and all of a sudden he called his shot. Now, it's "fact" that Babe Ruth called the shot. I think there are probably some similar stories surrounding many of the great pianists, and the more famous they are, the more-likely there are factually-skewed stories about them.

That, of course, will not happen with the current generation of pianists. They are recorded, taped, might as well be DNA-sampled and cloned.. there's zero room for conjecture unless we lose the recordings. So, two hundred years from now, we will be able to directly compare one pianist to another, and the people of that day will make their judgment. (It is a shame, however, that we in this day will not be able to make a judgment call about a pianist two hundred years from now.. wink )


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#1956997 - 09/10/12 03:29 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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I like her. She's got it; she should flaunt it.


"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas
#1957036 - 09/10/12 04:57 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: daviel]  
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Originally Posted by daviel
I like her. She's got it; she should flaunt it.

She most certainly does - and she usually plays the piano quite well too !! wink


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
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#1957364 - 09/11/12 10:11 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: timbo77]  
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Originally Posted by timbo77

mr_kitty: what's wrong with breaking the opening chords of Rach 2? There's a lot more to playing the piano and interpreting a piece than have hands big enough to play a tenth. It's hardly a reason to dismiss a performance. Ashkenazy breaks the chords and no-one has told him not to play Rachmaninoff!


I agree! I am all for freedom in music. Play the top notes of the chords with your nose for all I care. Why does it bother mr_kitty so much?

#1957745 - 09/12/12 05:42 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Firefinch]  
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Originally Posted by Firefinch

I agree! I am all for freedom in music. Play the top notes of the chords with your nose for all I care. Why does it bother mr_kitty so much?


Since this is an antique thread, and Mr. Kitty stopped posting here quite a while ago, it's not likely you are going to get an answer to your question.


#1958079 - 09/12/12 10:45 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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I don't want to argue with anyone, as I feel we all have our own sense of taste and are entitled to like, or dislike various interpretations or performances. However, I disagree with your opinion. Personally, I like her musicality and do not hold it against her that she possesses a fantastic technique, earned by many many hours of practice, I am sure. I find her mesmerizing to watch in videos. Her hands glide so smoothly over the keys, and it seems to me that she really gets involved in the music. Just my opinion. You are certainly entitled to disagree, of course. I would give anything to play like she does.

#1958085 - 09/12/12 10:55 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Chopinlover49]  
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Originally Posted by Chopinlover49
I don't want to argue with anyone, as I feel we all have our own sense of taste and are entitled to like, or dislike various interpretations or performances. However, I disagree with your opinion.


The most recent post of the person with whom you are disagreeing was in August of 2007. Just sayin'...



#1958225 - 09/13/12 10:26 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]  
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IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.

#1958248 - 09/13/12 11:34 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: klaviero]  
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Originally Posted by klaviero
IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.


It most certainly is only a question of personal taste. (because there's no way she is superior than someone like, say Uchida or Argerich.....)



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1958299 - 09/13/12 01:21 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Originally Posted by klaviero
IMO Valentina is the best pianist out there. I am no expert when it comes to the piano as I am just starting to learn to play but I think I have a good ear and I can say that her playing is superior to a lot of other pianists. Then again it most probably is a question of personal taste.


It most certainly is only a question of personal taste. (because there's no way she is superior than someone like, say Uchida or Argerich.....)

Or Kissin, or Volodos, or yes, even Lang Lang. They might be on par with each other, but the differences at that level are so minute that to say any of them is superior to any other is equivalent to saying that one's personal taste is superior to another's.


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#1958301 - 09/13/12 01:28 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: Pogorelich.]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 169
slava_richter Offline
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slava_richter  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 169
Providence, RI
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
It most certainly is only a question of personal taste. (because there's no way she is superior than someone like, say Uchida or Argerich.....)


Based on the recordings you've posted, you are also better than her. Maybe not technically, but you're a better musician.

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