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I have been learning for several months and am starting to think about direction and goals. I practice about 45min every day, but want to push that up to a solid 90minutes (or 60minutes with an additional 30minutes made up of 5-minutes here and 10-minutes there -- I am a mum with toddlers).

I am a very structured and goal orientated person. I like to see progression. I am the type of person who wants to take piano exams.. just because it sounds fun.

I am not sure where I want this piano playing to take me, mostly I am not sure what my options are.

- I am a big fan of Jane Austen and I would love to become 'accomplished' in the same sense that was used in that era. I would love to be able to play classical pieces for my friends and family.
- I want to be able to play fun stuff for my family. Ie Xmas songs, theme songs, popular songs, hits.
- I am also taken with the idea of pursuing bigger things, maybe an annual competition or recital (I don't really know what a recital is, but it sounds fun).

I read people saying they are currently learning 3 pieces and it will take them quite a while to learn them. Can you learn these big pieces and still be able to knock out popular music for your family? When you become good enough to be 'working on some difficult piece of Mozart' does that mean you are good enough to play Celine Dion's "Heart will go on" with only a practice or two?

Currently my teacher has me working on a few pieces of 'easy piano' from Mary Poppins that I suggested -- but I am wondering whether I am dictating the course of my learning without knowing where I am headed. I am feeling a little bit lost.

I want to know if I should be asking my teacher to be more formal with me. Currently she has me doing scales and these two pieces. I feel like I am floundering but not sure why. I feel like I am not practicing correctly, but she keeps saying "you clearly know how to practice, I don't need to tell you".. I can't help but wonder if I do need a stronger hand explaining things.

Anyone else feel that being an adult learner makes it harder for the teacher to 'tell' you what to do?
Any advice on the direction I am heading?

ETA: I am wondering whether a learning book might be a good thing for me but I am overwhelmed by the choices. Alfreds all-in-one, "Fundamental Keys Piano Method", etc etc.

More practice = more progress! Having 'rough' goals is a great idea, but don't get too attached to the idea of finishing things in a timely manner. Piano is rarely so predictable.

It sounds to me as if you want to be well-rounded: to be able to read and to also be able to play by ear. This is more than possible. Competitions may not be within your range, however, as these are usually for professionals (though amateur competitions do also exist, they are often done by people who are very talented and dedicated and could almost be professionals sometimes!). Your goals should include a study regiment of technique, theory, ear-training, and repertoire along with keyboard skills.

Yes, basically. As you progress to much harder pieces, you will see that it takes a lot longer to learn, depending on many factors. An pieces that are 'popular' are often very technically easy - chord patterns and simple 'tricks.' In any case, they will rarely if ever rival something that is as difficult as most classical repertoire.



It sounds to me that you aren't really learning any fundamentals or skills. While technique is being accomplished through scales and such, how are your developing your sight-reading and reading? How many easy pieces are you working on so you can develop your musicality? How many difficult songs are you working on so you can develop your technique?

You may want to be direct and tell your teacher:

"I want to learn classical piano with the occasional pop arrangement and to also do ear-training."

Some teachers just let adults do what they want since they know they are under more pressure and have less time. Discuss this with your teacher.

As for which series you should use, Fundamental Keys is wonderful! Many other series are just as fine. Most will work. Choose one (endorsed by your teacher, as you want to make sure they will be okay teaching from it) and go from there!

Thankyou. You have answered that so well, I really appreciate it.

Hi. Welcome. It sounds like you want a bit of a roadmap. Talk to your teacher about doing exams. The Royal Conservatory of Canada (RCM), and other exam boards have very detailed and specific requirements for all levels. I am following RCM because it provides me with a well rounded education and a roadmap for learning.

I recently did my grade 4 exam and it involved scales, chords, sight reading, ear tests, 2 studies, and 3 repertoire pieces. It was a lot of work but so worth it to me. I learned so much and the deadline for the exam really made me stick with it even on things I normally do not like to do (like ear training!).

I also learned I got too into the exam requirements and needed a break. I took several weeks 'off' to learn Christmas songs and other things. After the focus needed to work through all the requirents it was nice and I noticed my overall technique had improved drastically. So the exam stuff paid off.

Good luck to you. You sound very motivated!

I am not sure about the answers to these questions. I am very motivated, I have been doing lots of online reading about piano theory (I have also read a few books on my e-reader, including "Music Theory for Dummies"). I also have a couple of iPhone apps for both music theory and learning to sight-read notes. I am doing the scales HS -- C, F, G, D, Bb, and Am. She had me working on HT for a bit, I could do it but not at a very good speed so she told me to stop for a while. She also has me doing some arpeggios.

When I started we were doing all sorts of little pieces, 'lightly row', 'london bridge', and music like that. However she kind of stopped doing that and now we just work on my music. Currently it is three pieces from the Mary Poppins (my book). We look at stuff like chords, time signatures. She has had me transpose one of the songs into 3/4 time as an exercise (because I was playing it in 3/4 instead of 4/4, which we both thought sounded better -- but that is a whole other question). So we do look at things.

Again I wonder if me being an adult is putting her off. She often discusses things and I say "yes, I was just reading about that" because I often was. For me I love hearing her further explain it, and I am glad I was reading about it because it all starts cementing together. I wonder if she has started to think I know more than I do.

It is all about communication.

Talk with her about these same things you brought up here.

It sounds like you are doing a lot of good things. Just keep doing it and try not to become impatient. Learning to play piano does not always follow your time table. Some things take much longer than you would like. The trick is to stay in the game.

Others have picked up on you wanting to see the big picture, I also see that in your post.

A book that helped me see the big picture, thus gave me an understanding of what lies down the road was:
How to play the piano despite years of lessons by Ward Cannel and Fred Marx. http://www.amazon.com/Play-Piano-Despite-Years-Lessons/dp/0385142633 I've had good luck with Amazon used books - $6 plus shipping. Click the "Look inside button"

This book talks about how music thinks and that helped me understand where my instructor was taking me and then also threw some light on other ways of playing my piano (in my case keyboard).

Have fun.

Welcome to the ABF forum alsoTom. You've gotten lots of good advice here. If you feel a bit dissatisfied or like something is missing from you lessons, the best place to start is always by talking with your teacher. That way, she'll have a better idea of what you're trying to accomplish, and together you'll have a better chance of figuring out how to get there.

If you're interested in an informal "recital", check out the quarterly online recitals we have here on this very forum. You record your piece ahead of time, and then they are all posted on the recital date. They're lots of fun, and open to players of any level, as long as you're a member. You'll see a few threads at the top of the ABF forum list that relate to the most recent recital.

Good luck with your learning!

Thankyou and I agree. I feel like I know what I need to talk to my teacher about now. Some of the posters nailed it when they said I am trying to figure out the big picture (as far as my piano playing is going).

I have also been listening to the Recital #27 and it is exactly the kind of informal goal that would suit me. Tee threads where forum members break down pieces of work (eg. Bach prelude in C) looks like something I would like to aim to be involved in.

Thank you all very much.

There's also the piano bar each month if you're intimidated by the recital (not to say there's a reason you should be).

I would like to add that you should look into an exam such as the RCM, even if you decide not to take the exam (which is perfectly okay!).

More and more performance opportunities, even through the online community where there is less pressure because no one 'knows you,' will arise and make you a better performer.

Speak to your teacher about a rough plan to begin a classical foundation. Otherwise, as others have mentioned too, don't worry too much about 'goals' as opposed to having fun and looking at the big picture (though goals obviously help, don't let them limit you or stretch you too thin either).

Yes I am not so worried about specific goals, ie wanting to play Chopin by the end of the year or wanting to pass the AMB grade 6 exam.

I am more just wanting to make a decision about where this is heading and talk to her about it. I feel like I am fluffing around and wasting my time a bit this last two weeks.

I am already limited by the amount of time I have to practice, so I don't want to waste it fluffing around. I recorded my practice today... it lasted 5minutes before I had to go get my 8mo, who then accompanied me while I played, she also threw the book on the floor and close the piano lid :), then she cried. (Albeit, she was a bit sick tonight).

NB. I should add that we have decided to change my practice time to earlier in the day when the house can be somewhat child-free and I can get a longer session... I say this in case anyone is concerned that 5 minutes per day is not enough (At that rate I will reach the 10000 hour mark in 300 years)

Here's what can be tricky about learning to play the piano.

Sometimes we don't notice the progress we are making and we forget that all these little things we are doing now WILL add up to the bid picture. Even if you are not sure exactly what direction you are going in just yet. So, have faith. It will all come together.

Progress may seem slow at first be we really are learning a lot. More than we realize. I often don't realize how much progress I've made until I've looked to where I began. Or, I do something and when I'm done I realize HEY! I did that! lol. (like sight reading or playing a duet with my teacher).

In most things in life we have instant gratification or at least measurable goals and successes etc. However, learning the piano can feel very vague, at least it does to me sometimes. I think that's one of the benefits of doing those exams. You have very clear cut goals. I often compare this to martial arts where you learn a bunch of stuff, test for your belt (and pass) then you start working on the next set of skills etc. Just having that goal or marker to aim towards really helps you to focus. That's something that I feel I need with piano.

My teacher is always telling my "you already know everything". I also think she see's an ability in me that I don't. So, I think we need to trust when our teacher see's something in us but also, It's important to let them know when we don't understand something or are uncertain about things. Often, when I practice, I wonder if I'm doing it right-ha ha

Also, to your practice I would add (if your not doing it already) scales, arpeggios, chords etc.

Just curious, does your teacher have experience teaching other adults?

So, after all that rambling,I would say to just remind yourself of all the great progress you are making. Have faith that things will come together and the big picture will reveal itself to you in due time. If you feel you need more measurable goals then you can talk to your teacher about that. You can even print the syllabus for the ABRSM or other exams and use that as a guide, even if you don't actually do the exam. It just might make you feel better that you have a set goal.

Good luck!

I will hijack my own thread and ask. When people talk about scales do they simple mean playing the notes up and back in a regular beat. I saw a book that had heaps of fancy scales. I also read a thread that talked about 'sight reading' scales rather then playing from memory. I didn't get that, surely every scale is memorised?
What does practicing chords mean? I have been learning chords by playing them, ie I learnt some folk songs that didn't have a bass line, and instead I played the chords.


I am beginning to suspect that she doesn't. I am also beginning to suspect that she is very new to teaching. How new I cannot say, I know she does some part-time stuff at a local high school. She refers a lot to things her teacher told her, which may just be a way of relating, but I would rather hear "in my experience students do this or that" rather then "my teacher always told me". Again, being an adult learner does affect these sorts of things.

Having said that. I do not mind being her first. I am under no allusions as to where I am headed (ie not a concert pianist, not trying to earn a living). As long as I am progressing each week I am happy (she does charge much less then her competitors and lives at the end of my street)

Starting to learn something so different from what we're used to can feel a bit "fuzzy" at first. I remember feeling off-kilter or slightly out-of-focus for a few months when I first started lessons. I felt like my teacher was speaking a different language, and I couldn't really get a clear picture of how this learning was going to happen. But then I decided to approach it like you might if you were thrown into an entirely new culture. I accepted that I might not find a clear direct path right away, that I might not understand everything completely the first time through, and that I might not immediately see how everything fit together. This helped me not to feel disappointed when my progress wasn't straight and smooth, and when things didn't go as I expected. The good news: that phase didn't last too long. I think my brain has adjusted to this new way of learning.

On the other hand (and not to get down on your teacher), but this worries me a bit:
At your level, I can't believe that there isn't room for improvement. To me, her response only says that she doesn't know what to tell you. I know that my teacher has spent a lot of time teaching me how to practice. It also makes me wonder how your teacher knows that you know how to practice. Have you spent a lesson going through a sample "practice session"? If not, she only sees the results, but not what it took you to get there. Could there be more effective and efficient ways to get those same results? Here's an entire book written about practicing: http://www.insidemusicteaching.com/bookstore/practiceopedia/. Just as a quick check, browse through the contents, and ask yourself if you are already make use of many (or any) of those techniques.

A teacher who has more experience with adults might be a better choice for you, especially if you want to progress faster and make better use of your limited practice time. This might cost you more, but it could be a choice of whether you want to pay more for better results, or pay less, but with a lower rate of return on your investment of both time and money.

You've already said your teacher has you practicing scales, you really should know what they are. When you say "surely every scale is memorized," you seem to misunderstand the general practice of understanding the link between theory/practical application, and the nature of music theory and practice in general.

You say your teacher is new, perhaps you should get a new one because this one does not appear to be providing you with a basic understanding of music/music theory and your own readings are not filling in the blanks. These kind of questions can't fully be explained through text, you need to ask a teacher and have him or her elucidate the answers and why they are answers.

You can not progress based on your current understanding, you really need a more solid foundation. My suggestion would be to try to get your teacher to explain the concepts she is teaching you. If she does and you still don't understand, take your money elsewhere. You're not going to progress without a solid foundation.

Just to clarify... I do play scales. I was trying to ask if there was more to scales than that. Am I playing a basic version. When I read more advanced players talking about scales are they referring to a more advanced form of scales.

All I can say.. is yes you are right, you must be because I can barely even understand what you are saying here. I get that I don't fully understand it yet. I am limited so far to seeing the connection between scales and the key signature and being able to recognise the key and can anticipate the sharps/flats when playing a new song.



I think this is the crux of my original question. Is it important to follow a formal learning path or will I get there by playing through a pile of fun pieces of music? Is the foundation being subtley woven in to my learning, or is it not.

I'll answer the technique question as best as I can:

Scales (and their derivatives) are a fundamental token of piano learning. Their effectiveness has been argued in modern pedagogy but until someone can definitively say they are worthless with proof, I will always believe in them because I have seen what they do for me and for my students.

That said, scales are not just playing up and down at a regular beat. Of course, one needs to learn the notes (which should be done in conjunction with theory rather than just rote memorization).

But once the notes are learned, you develop different approaches to tone and touch and attack through scale. You play up and down, you play contrary, you play with different articulation. Then you do chords, play the primaries, then cadences, then inversions. You learn arpeggios for all of the chords. You play harmonic scales (a 3rd apart, a 10th apart, etc). You learn the modes on every note. You dabble in blues scale and different world scales if those interest you.

All this while developing your ear to what you are playing as well.

There is no simple answer here. Well, the most simple would be a graded technique series that will give you the backbone, but it may not be worth the investment. Instead, speak to your teacher about a more focused (classical) technique regiment.

Thankyou for that response. I bought a cheap ebook about scales and arpeggios. It explained it but I never got the conneçtion. I know the more I hear it the more I will understand

I am looking forward to chatting with my teacher next lesson. I definetly want to get more formal. Do the AMB grades, use a more formal course book. I have ordered one of the books recommended above which I will like even if it just as a supplement to the exercises.

I am asking hubby to help me get more time to practice each day (60-90min). A more formal course would be a good way to help keep me on track.

I should add as an explanation. When I started this thread I was learning three pirces. My practice technique was to just play them through a couple of times each. I have been reading lots on this website and applying it. So lately instead of playing the whole song I just work on one section. This way I get a couple dozen repetions, rather then two or three. I can focus on what I am doing wrong and fix it. I feel much better about my practice now (but I still want more)

Reflecting on what I wrote earlier, I think I was a little harsh in my comments. Being that you're only a few months into learning, it may be that your teacher is just tailoring what she's giving you based on your experience level and what you're ready for. I think you've got the right idea -- talk with your teacher, let her know how you'd like to approach lessons, and work with her to get the most out of this great opportunity that you have!