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#1949275 - 08/26/12 08:30 AM Question for the pros...  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 229
Cmajor Offline
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Cmajor  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 229
USA
I have a new (5 months old) Kawai K3 which has been tuned 2x since arriving in our home. Recently, the F6 thru B7 keys, when struck, produce a constant sound identical to the damper pedal being applied. It is only these keys but it is very annoying. I think the damper must not be contacting these strings. My question, before I call the dealer, is: is this a need for "regulation" or does this sound like some problem that would be covered under warranty?


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#1949276 - 08/26/12 08:36 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Apr 2008
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Emmery Offline
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Emmery  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
You do not have a problem. There are no dampers up in that area. The shorter strings in the treble area do not produce as much sustain as the longer strings and piano manufacturers don't put dampers in there.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#1949281 - 08/26/12 08:42 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Nov 2007
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Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Grand Rapids Michigan
Emmery is right. You have only now discovered this.... NO pianos have dampers up that high....


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1949332 - 08/26/12 11:11 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Emmery]  
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Posts: 229
Cmajor Offline
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Cmajor  Offline
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USA
Thanks Emmery and Jerry. I am a piano beginner and have not had much exposure to the higher registers until recently. It is a very abrupt change though and very noticeable.

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#1949342 - 08/26/12 11:36 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
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BDB Offline
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Oakland
Sometimes the lowest notes without dampers become brighter than the adjacent notes with them. They are hit as hard as the adjacent notes, but the weight of the damper mechanism is not there to absorb some of the energy. It goes into the hammer, instead, so it becomes brighter faster. Someone who is adept at voicing can compensate for that.


Semipro Tech
#1949498 - 08/26/12 05:03 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Apr 2006
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OperaTenor Offline
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OperaTenor  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
Sandy Eggo, California
I recently had a customer with the very same concern. They were shocked when I showed them the high treble had no dampers - their first assumption was that it was a cost-cutting measure...



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#1949770 - 08/27/12 10:51 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: BDB]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 229
Cmajor Offline
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Cmajor  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 229
USA
Originally Posted by BDB
Sometimes the lowest notes without dampers become brighter than the adjacent notes with them. They are hit as hard as the adjacent notes, but the weight of the damper mechanism is not there to absorb some of the energy. It goes into the hammer, instead, so it becomes brighter faster. Someone who is adept at voicing can compensate for that.


That is exactly the case.

The more I learn about acoustical pianos the more I realize what an intricate piece of machinery they are... thanks for the explanation. I am actually trading the K3 in on a baby grand so I just wanted to make sure there was not a warranty problem prior to the transaction.

I am purchasing a Hailun 178 and have payed particular attention to the higher octaves and the transition is much less noticeable.. to me anyway.

#1949776 - 08/27/12 11:07 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: OperaTenor]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Zeno Wood Offline
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Zeno Wood  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Brooklyn, NY
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#1949918 - 08/27/12 03:15 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,340
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,340
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Cmajor


I am purchasing a Hailun 178 and have payed particular attention to the higher octaves and the transition is much less noticeable.. to me anyway.


The Hailun 178 has duplex scaling. Perhaps that extra "ring" on the notes with dampers makes the transition less abrupt.

It's a nice piano by the way, unbeatable at that price point, IMO.

#1950038 - 08/27/12 07:25 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Zeno Wood]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,560
David Jenson Offline
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David Jenson  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,560
Strong, Maine
Originally Posted by Zeno Wood
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!
Hey Zeno. (Looking furtively both ways) Can you give a really good deal on some itty bitty treble dampers? Huh?


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#1950053 - 08/27/12 08:04 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: David Jenson]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Originally Posted by David Jenson
Originally Posted by Zeno Wood
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!
Hey Zeno. (Looking furtively both ways) Can you give a really good deal on some itty bitty treble dampers? Huh?

Q-Tips, Maybe?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1950071 - 08/27/12 09:06 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Zeno Wood]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,169
rysowers Offline
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rysowers  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,169
Olympia, WA
Originally Posted by Zeno Wood
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!

Did you stash them with the ivory keys that I've heard of technicians stealing?


Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
#1950087 - 08/27/12 09:51 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Zeno Wood Offline
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Zeno Wood  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Brooklyn, NY
That's right, I stockpile all those ivories and tiny dampers, hide them under my mattress!

It was actually a fairly contentious scene, there was no convincing her that the piano actually came that way. Had to call a technician friend and put her on the line.


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#1950181 - 08/28/12 01:45 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Sep 2006
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Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Nice of you to leave the bass dampers, at least, Zeno....

#1950227 - 08/28/12 05:32 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
I wonder if the customer is allowed to shoot the piano tuner if he feels that his piano is in danger ...


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1950233 - 08/28/12 06:09 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Olek]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,560
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,560
Strong, Maine
Originally Posted by Kamin
I wonder if the customer is allowed to shoot the piano tuner if he feels that his piano is in danger ...
I think they can in Texas and parts of Alabama especially if they catch you with a brown paper bag of tiny treble dampers and some assorted ivories!

Some of these things are funny ... after ... the incident is over!


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#1950829 - 08/29/12 08:50 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: David Jenson]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
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Emmery  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
In addition to what has been already mentioned, the treble area of the piano that is not damped will add some additional brilliance to the piano when other notes below it are played (sympathetic vibration). Every now and then I will run into a piano where the first few undampened notes seem to indicate they could indeed benefit from dampers. It would not have been too difficult to do so; but I think they were left the way they are because of that additional sound they provide when playing in regions below it.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#1958049 - 09/12/12 07:22 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Emmery]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
taterdiggr Offline
Junior Member
taterdiggr  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
KY
I've always wanted the dampers to go higher on pianos I play. At least another 6 or 8 notes higher. Are there any pianos that have more dampers? Surely some mfr. has done this at some point in time...?

#1958050 - 09/12/12 07:24 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,747
BDB Offline
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BDB  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Oakland
Old Steinway uprights had a lot of dampers. I think there were some Ibach grands which had more dampers. There were probably others.


Semipro Tech

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