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My Piano in Equal Temperament #1948143
08/23/12 10:27 PM
08/23/12 10:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline OP
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Greetings.... I have just spent a wonderful week with Ari Isaac and his lovely wife Hanna at my home here in Portland. We all had a great time. Most of it was taken up by the piano, however we did do some socializing with friends, and a sightseeing day trip up to Mt.Hood...thankfully no rumblings from the Volcano wink

This was a working/vacation of sorts for Ari, but the main purpose of Ari's visit was to work on voicing his Classical West Hammers. I also asked Ari to tune the piano in ET, which he did totally by ear. It all turned out beautifully.

His ET tuning, which I recorded on my Ipad Verituner, turned out really nice. I now have 2 custom tunings for my grand to choose from, EBVT 3 and what I will call "Isaac ET". wink The piano also has his bass strings, which are fantastic. I also picked up some tuning/hammer techniques from Ari.

I put the word out to a few local PTG folks and 2 came on Sunday afternoon to meet Ari and listen to the finished piano...they were impressed. In fact, one called back that night and wants Ari to send a few hammer samples for a possible Steinway B restoration. Ever since I first heard his hammers and Bass strings on my piano, I have been a fan, now even more so.

Here are a few recorded pieces. I used the Korg MR-1000, with a pair of RODE N5 mics. Nothing was done to the recordings except to use "Amplify" in Audacity, which basically ups the volume a bit.

Enjoy, and of course any and all comments are welcome. I apologize for the slight clicking sound from the damper tray. We did not have time to diagnose and fix it.


1. Gerald Robbins playing a Scarlatti Sonata in E, K.531 on the LX in Isaac ET. https://www.box.com/s/b4ee5c1075ff9d50cdc6

2. Gerald Robbins playing Scarlatti Sonata in A, K533 on the LX in Isaac ET https://www.box.com/s/9b18023969c5f068f853

3. John Arpin playing "As Time Goes By" on the LX, in Isaac ET (right at the end, a motorcycle goes by...Morphy's law!?! https://www.box.com/s/70ab73623e2ebdda004a

4. B.Pezzone playing "Sleepless in Seattle" on the LX in Isaac ET https://www.box.com/s/63ce746c1da219b44572

5. B.Pezzone playing "Somewhere in Time" on the LX in Isaac ET https://www.box.com/s/469f4f8a5a5a322540cd

6. Rachmaninoff playing Bach's "Sarabande" from Partita No. 4, BWV 828 https://www.box.com/s/6d34701ae7ca80d77105

7. Gerald Robbins playing Chopin's Scherzo No. 3 in C-Sharp minor, Op. 39 on the LX in Isaac ET https://www.box.com/s/ca2aa179d60f1f58f2cc


A big THANK YOU Ari for your excellent work!

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Grandpianoman; 08/23/12 11:40 PM.
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Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948330
08/24/12 08:29 AM
08/24/12 08:29 AM
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Bradford County, PA
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I listened to the Bach. Ahhhhh! I can understand what Bach was trying to say so much better without the distractons of an UT.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948353
08/24/12 09:45 AM
08/24/12 09:45 AM
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Niagara Region, On. Canada
Emmery Offline
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Ari's hammers and bass strings are first rate, nice to hear it all worked out for you. Did the hammers need any ground plexiglass doping or did they get voiced down?


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948522
08/24/12 02:01 PM
08/24/12 02:01 PM
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London, England
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Phil D Offline
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Great recordings GPM, thanks very much. Listened to the Bach/Rach and the first Scarlatti, it sounds really clear, a great tuning as you'd expect from someone like Mr Isaac.

I'd be interested to know what you personally think of the tuning how it is now compared to last time it was tuned?

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Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948762
08/24/12 10:47 PM
08/24/12 10:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline OP
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Glad you are all enjoying the recordings.

Emmery, thanks...you are correct, his hammers and bass strings are special! For me, this is a continuing journey for beautiful sounding piano music. The hammers....a few of the hammers needed some brightening, which Ari used a diluted and very thin solution of Acetone and plexiglass beads. He also voiced the hammers to their optimum, as opposed to "voicing down". I have never heard such a big round tone from the piano as I do now, it literally sings....more on my further impressions later.

Phil....thanks, you are welcome. I agree, the clarity is one aspect that is coming through beautifully. I am going to keep listening and will post my thoughts on the tuning later as well. I have a few more recordings and will post them later today or tomorrow.


Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948875
08/25/12 09:31 AM
08/25/12 09:31 AM
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Bowling Green, KY
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Forrest Halford Offline
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I cannot wait to get my Isaac Cadenza Hammers! I'm enjoying my piano now, but I have a feeling the transformation is going to be lovely. :-)

It's nice having your piano in my living room in the meantime (via 1959 H.H.Scott tubes and E-V Patrician 800s - and of course this most modern, most excellent internet thingy).

thank you as always for sharing this.

Forrest


PTG Associate Member
Haydn Hob. XVI: 23 in F major
Debussy Arabesque #1, Reverie
Bach BWV 874, 883
My beliefs are only that unless I can prove them.
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948905
08/25/12 10:39 AM
08/25/12 10:39 AM
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Hong Kong
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Thank you.

Enjoy the music. The harmony are so pure.


Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1948926
08/25/12 11:23 AM
08/25/12 11:23 AM
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Oklahoma
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Grandpianoman:


Bravo!!! What shining clarity.

What is the length of your piano?


Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1949250
08/26/12 07:27 AM
08/26/12 07:27 AM
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France
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Euh, may be the miking or my listening setup, but I dont hear the melodic part... sorry.



Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1949417
08/26/12 03:24 PM
08/26/12 03:24 PM
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Portland, Oregon
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Forrest, glad you are enjoying the recordings on your stereo system, and you are getting a set of Ari's hammers.

Chuck, thanks....my piano is a rebuilt M&H BB from 1927, it's basically a 7ft Grand. Original soundboard, new hammers, bass and treble strings, Tokiwa whippens/shanks, new WN&G carbon back action kit.

Kamin, perhaps it is the mic position...these are placed in the same general area as the recordings before, but slightly closer to the piano. There is a lot of sound coming from the piano now, and that may be what you are refering to. Hearing it live in my living room, I have no trouble hearing the melodic parts.

I have a few more classical and pop recordings to post later today. smile

Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1949496
08/26/12 06:01 PM
08/26/12 06:01 PM
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Sandy Eggo, California
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"tune the piano in ET, which he did totally by ear"

If that's the case, it's probably actually in Reverse Well...

(Just kidding!!!)



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Olek] #1949519
08/26/12 06:50 PM
08/26/12 06:50 PM
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kpembrook Offline
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Originally Posted by Kamin
Euh, may be the miking or my listening setup, but I dont hear the melodic part... sorry.



Yeah, there's too much sound. Normally the speakers on my iMac handle music quite well. But with these soundfiles, I was getting distortion --- particularly in the area around D-54. I could tell it was good, but not how good until I went and got my earphones from the other computer. . . .

WOW!! If anyone wants to appreciate what Grandpianoman has, it is essential to listen through good equipment. And bravo to Ari for a superb voicing job.

I had installed a set of the Classical West high energy hammers a couple of years ago on a Baldwin SD-10 that was also upgraded with Wapin, Isaac Profundo bass strings and WNG shanks and flanges, so I knew what they are capable of. They are amazing hammers -- although, for most people and applications, the regular Cadenza 165 hammers will be fine.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1949523
08/26/12 06:53 PM
08/26/12 06:53 PM
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Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline OP
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Here are a few more recordings in "Isaac ET". Sorry for the clicking sounds...they will be fixed shortly.


1.Scarlatti Sonata in C minor, K.11 played by Gerald Robbins on the LX -Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/531781e5e56084965235

2. Scarlatti Sonata in G. K.14 played by Gerald Robbins on the LX-Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/1157fba1fef62674c38d

3. Grieg "Butterly", Op. 43. No. 1--Played by Gerald Robbins on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/d5dcaf971fcbdc4a35f3

4. Grieg Puck, Op. 71, No. 3 Played by Gerald Robbins on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/aab72938bef974b33695

5. Moszkowski--Etincelles, Op. 36, No. 6 played by Earl Wild on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/1b340fddf5861888e4be



Pop/NewAge Selections

1. John Williams-- Princess Leia's Theme--played by B.Pezzone on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/a40117ec0876f31ab8a3

2. Theme from "Il Postino" played by B.Pezzone on the LX--Isaac ET https://www.box.com/s/b6a54c1e9aae7f077562

3. --Longings-- by M.Garson--played by M.Garson on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/58feab6692dd00098978

4. --Reflections-- by M.Garson played by M.Garson on the LX--Isaac ET https://www.box.com/s/b6bc3e9462278c33da83

5. --Admiration-- by M.Garson played by M.Garson on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/d88fcea9574fcc34ccb0


Last edited by Grandpianoman; 08/26/12 08:18 PM. Reason: added "Admiration" file
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: kpembrook] #1949527
08/26/12 07:08 PM
08/26/12 07:08 PM
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Rockford, IL
Cinnamonbear Online content
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Originally Posted by kpembrook
WOW!! If anyone wants to appreciate what Grandpianoman has, it is essential to listen through good equipment. And bravo to Ari for a superb voicing job.


Precisely! Sometimes I am completely mystified and befuddled by some of the comments regarding GP's recordings.

Thanks for sharing these, GP! Please keep 'em coming!!!

--Andy


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1949539
08/26/12 07:44 PM
08/26/12 07:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,391
Québec, Canada
accordeur Online content
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I must say I have not listened to all of the recordings that you have posted.

Recording a piano, keeping it in tune etc... is just about the most difficult job for a sound engineer.

You do credit to your equipment and pianos. Very nice!!!!


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: kpembrook] #1949600
08/26/12 11:24 PM
08/26/12 11:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline OP
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Kpembrook,


You hit it right....as I had mentioned in another posting, headphones are highly recommended! A good example is "Admiration" for the bass in particular. With good headphones, it's quite something. Ari does deserve a big "BRAVO"! smile

Ari explained to me about his bass strings...."If they are designed to, they will amplify the entire piano by activating the fundamental frequency of the tenor and treble notes". That is certainly taking place here.

I think what is happening in my case, the combination of a great piano, original soundboard, Ari's bass strings and Cadenza West hammers, new action, shanks, new WN&G carbon back action kit, new Roslau treble wire, and the Wapin bridge modification...these are all contributing to what you are hearing, and of course, the tuning.

I wish I could change the tuning with a push of a button! smile It's nice to have the ability to go to different temperaments myself. I liken it to "tone" controls on a good Stereo system. For example, I have a tube headphone amp that is fantastic. Just by changing the tubes to a different manufacture, I can change the tone/color of the music.

You're welcome Andy!~

Accordeur, thank you...I don't profess to be a recording engineer, but I do know good sound, and that's a plus. It really is difficult to record an acoustic piano well. The tuning has to be so precise for every recording. The fact that I have not added any reverb, or any other modification to the sound, and have the piano sounding like that, is pretty amazing. I am surprised it sounds the way it does. If you heard it live in my living room, you would hear a kind of "3D" effect, there is so much resonance.

One other suggestion for these files...for some reason, when I listen through the box.net player, there is a slight distortion in the sound....if I download the file, then play it from my computer, that distortion is gone. You can really hear this with headphones.





Last edited by Grandpianoman; 08/27/12 12:22 AM. Reason: added content
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1949611
08/26/12 11:57 PM
08/26/12 11:57 PM
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Malaysia
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victor kam Offline
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Hi GPman!
It's been quite sometime now and lately my piano sounded even richer and fuller than I can ever remember. I just have to find the courage and finances to get the Classical West hammers smile

Good voicing and tuning job by Ari!!

Last edited by victor kam; 08/27/12 12:08 AM.

vk
NY Steinway D 423118 (rebuilt by Roy Peters, OH)
Yamaha UX 2499771; Casio PX-3 keyboard
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1950473
08/28/12 04:02 PM
08/28/12 04:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline OP
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Portland, Oregon
Hi Victor,

Great to hear that Ari's hammers are sounding better with age. smile

If you want more power, sustain and resonance, the Classical West hammers are the ticket.



I had a request to post a few 1920's Fox Trots. These were recorded yesterday...all I have done to Ari's tuning is clean up a few unisons, and changed the mic position slightly. It's interesting to hear how just changing the mic position slightly alters the sound.

The Original Piano Trio (6 hands at once!) played on the LX. These were taken from the original Ampico rolls and translated for the LX by Wayne Stahnke. Here is some information about them:

http://www.live-performance.com/opt.html


1. The Original Piano Trio 1 played on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/5951eed9e40ca4244225

2. The Original Piano Trio 2 --played on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/858e6b4ce38a1534239b

3. The Original Piano Trio 3 played on the LX--Isacc ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/41e61e95590f95a8045e

4. The Original Piano Trio 4--played on the LX--Isaac ET.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/d9b615326c370229444a




Last edited by Grandpianoman; 08/28/12 04:04 PM. Reason: corrections
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1951970
08/31/12 09:30 AM
08/31/12 09:30 AM
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hard2tune Offline
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If Ari ever decides to sell that Fujan, let me know.

Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1952002
08/31/12 10:29 AM
08/31/12 10:29 AM
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Chicagoland
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I remember hearing Theme from "Il Postino" in EBVT - it was great to be able to hear them one after another, (even though the levels didn't match) to compare the temperament differences to the music.

Just loving the sound of your instrument! Great work.

Ron Koval

Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: hard2tune] #1952150
08/31/12 04:14 PM
08/31/12 04:14 PM
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Portland, Oregon
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Hard2tune.....actually, that is my hammer.....I bought that way back when it first came out. Ari was trying it out and really liked it, and used it for the rest of his visit! We are trying to find another one. smile

Ron, thanks. That is one of the reasons I wanted to hear a good ET on my piano.....I wanted to hear what differences there were between an excellent ET and EBVT III. If it were as easy as pushing a button to change the tuning, I would be trying more temperaments. smile

I wish I could capture on the recordings, what I hear live in my living room. It's devilishy difficult to record a grand piano well. I certainly don't have the best setup for recording a piano, nor the best room for it. The tone/resonance is so full now, that the notes litereally just "hang" out there in the air...when you close your eyes, the sound is all around you...that's how resonant and at the same time beautiful and so even sounding the piano is now after Ari voiced and tuned it. Every note has a bell-like quality to it now, a pureness that is part of how well it projects this beautiful tone....I don't want it to stop...LOL.

You know, this has been quite a journey to arrive at this stage of the game. Many folks have been involved in this project........A big thank you to everyone who has contributed here on PW....Bill, Roy and his Wapin installation, Patrick, and PianoWorld. Way back in 2005, when I first started posting here on PW, asking newbie questions about tuning etc, a lot of folks weighed in....Del, thanks for your suggestion to replace the rosewood front duplex bars with solid brass in the last 2 treble sections, and your suggestion that if the soundboard is still good after some 80+ years, chances are it's not going to fail now. Also, Bdb, your suggestion to keep the original soundboard, agreeing with my rebuilder. I am glad I did not replace it!

A thank you to Wayne Stahnke...your LX system is fantastic! My rebuilder Randy Cox who rebuilt the whole piano, both player systems...thank you!

Ari, thank you again...you have brought all of this together with your excellent hammers and bass strings, and your expertise in voicing and tuning...what a sound!!

The journey happily continues............








Last edited by Grandpianoman; 08/31/12 04:59 PM. Reason: added content
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1963673
09/24/12 12:47 PM
09/24/12 12:47 PM
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Portland, Oregon
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An update.......I just found out yesterday, that the PTG tech that came to visit when Ari was here, and had requested some hammer samples after hearing my piano, is going to order a full set of his hammers for a Steinway B restoration they will be starting. smile

Here is one more recording I did not post eariler...This was after Ari left, and I believe I was not happy with a few upper unisons, which I did not clean up before recording the piece, and that clicking noise. It still sounds pretty good considering.

Theme from "Love Affair" https://www.box.com/s/e947bfopqgfvqqm81839


Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1964283
09/25/12 02:03 PM
09/25/12 02:03 PM
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Hi Grandpianoman

Very nice song!
Are there any downloadables scores for that "love affair"?
Thanks
Toni

Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: RonTuner] #1964485
09/25/12 08:28 PM
09/25/12 08:28 PM
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Toronto, Ontario
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Originally Posted by RonTuner
I remember hearing Theme from "Il Postino" in EBVT - it was great to be able to hear them one after another, (even though the levels didn't match) to compare the temperament differences to the music.

Just loving the sound of your instrument! Great work.

Ron Koval


I concur.
I've downloaded both versions and listen to them both frequently, probably more than any other solo piano piece I have to be honest.
I absolutely love the playing of that piece. thumb

Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Toni Goldener] #1964514
09/25/12 10:11 PM
09/25/12 10:11 PM
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Portland, Oregon
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Hi Tony,

Sorry, I don't really know. frown

Sparky, glad you are enjoying the piece...it's one of my favorites from Pezzone...another is Sleepless in Seattle....I like the way he lifts the dampers and lets the treble sing.

Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #1988537
11/19/12 02:09 PM
11/19/12 02:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Grandpianoman  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Previously in this thread, I had not posted any Ampico rolls in ET.

Here is one of my favorites, a Porgy and Bess Medley, played here by Adam Carroll on the Ampico. smile

This is my 1927 M&H Ampico BB Grand Piano, with Ari's bass strings and Classical West hammers, which he voiced before the tuning. He tuned it in ET, no ETD. It was recorded a few days after the tuning, and I just cleaned up a few of the unisons. https://www.box.com/s/n1wvskwtw1clc4pbmnww

Last edited by Grandpianoman; 11/19/12 02:20 PM. Reason: added content
Re: My Piano in Equal Temperament [Re: Grandpianoman] #2419973
05/13/15 06:41 AM
05/13/15 06:41 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 8
Banned
K
kajok Offline
Junior Member
kajok  Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 8
Banned
Hello there,

I am violinist and retired.
Now I have lot of time and I discovered a new temperament.
Using Microsynth I recorded one example and if you have some free time,please listen and tell me if do you like.

Thanks

Mr Dimitrov

Email: latchezar_d@yahoo.com

https://app.box.com/s/ub3uaub0ct17rcecdd607wx11phixl68


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