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Re: Steinway Rebuild Costs Question [Re: Larry Buck] #1946476
08/20/12 11:25 PM
08/20/12 11:25 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Thank you Larry for responding to me. I have been away from PW since Saturday morning.

I read through what has been discussed here in the last couple of days and frankly, some of my thunder has been stolen. Thank you Ed and Del. smile

You made this statement Larry:

Originally Posted by Larry Buck
Comparing re-builders to Steinway is a slippery slope.


Why is this so Larry? Are the people who do piano restoration in Astoria not rebuilders? While we are discussing this, do you think they have "historic restoration" as a goal?

Quote
I may not agree with you on who is in a position to criticize.


Larry, I recently saw a piano in NY State that you rebuilt in partnership with Marc Wienert. There were many great parts used. The only Steinway parts I saw were hammers. (although I did not pull the action to see the back action. That could have been Steinway as well)

It was a beautiful piano Larry. It spoke as a consummate example of the Steinway tone. It played better than most rebuilds I have seen from the NY factory, regardless of the parts used - and isn't that the point in the end?

By the way, we are currently rebuilding an 1860 Style 1 for a family in Syracuse. If you ever find yourself in Philly, I would enjoy your opinion on the piano.

My 2 cents,



Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
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Re: Steinway Rebuild Costs Question [Re: Rafterman] #1946767
08/21/12 05:01 PM
08/21/12 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Larry Buck  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
Rich,

As a matter of decorum, it is not for me to say what Steinway's intent is in it's rebuilding.

I maintain that it is a slippery slope. None of us are free from mistakes. I will focus my energy on rectifying my own. I trust that those who know what they are looking for only have to inspect what is offered and they are capable of making their own choices.

The inspection, evaluation, determination and execution process required for competent action work is roughly the same regardless of who's parts you use.

Choice of hammers does clearly define tonal potential.

Thank You BTW for commenting on the Steinway O in NY. I was responsible for the belly work, pinblock, plate finishing stringing etc. only.

This work was preformed to meet the specifications of my client.

I was not responsible for the action work. Just the same, the action work was also done to meet the specifications of the client. Just to be clear, if specifications stated Steinway Reps and Shanks/flanges the results would have been achieved as easily.

I have only played the finished piano once, as it was delivered to the client in NY. My understanding is that the client is thrilled with the piano.

Just to restate, the action parts choice had nothing to do with limited result via parts choice. Strictly the instructions of the client.

I do appreciate the compliments Rich, thank you. I will accept your invitation and visit next time I am in the area.


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances
Re: Steinway Rebuild Costs Question [Re: Rafterman] #1947076
08/22/12 06:42 AM
08/22/12 06:42 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,253
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Larry,

A few comments - you stated this:
Originally Posted by Larry Buck
As a matter of decorum, it is not for me to say what Steinway's intent is in it's rebuilding.


I respect your reservations to speak for someone else. In this case you do not have to do so. It is not a secret that Steinway will use newer designs when it is easier and possible to do so. Their company mantra is "The new Steinway is the best Steinway." Changing belly and action design in older pianos is commonplace and you don't have to declare a thing, Larry. Just speak to their staff or read their website.

Originally Posted by Larry Buck
I was not responsible for the action work. Just the same, the action work was also done to meet the specifications of the client. Just to be clear, if specifications stated Steinway Reps and Shanks/flanges the results would have been achieved as easily.


This was my original point Larry. A beautiful result can be achieved with carefully chosen aftermarket parts and we have found over time that there are better choices available than NY parts. More accurately made parts from the hammer and throughout the piano - down to the plate bolts - are available.

Our goal is the final performance and we do attempt historic restoration. IOW, where ever possible to be true to the original intent of the manufacturers of the piano.

If you desire to only use NY factory parts, I respect that. It is not the only way to achieve the finest result and in the opinion of many, it is not the best way either.

See Ed Foote's earlier comment (Ed is chief tech. at Vanderbilt, an expert on historic temperament tunings, and an old friend)

Originally Posted by Ed Foote
I don't use many factory parts because there are longer lasting, more accurately made parts available. They desperately try to tell us that it is only a Steinway if they are the only ones supplying the parts. It overlooks the fact that the modern parts are not like the originals, and branding them "Steinway" doesn't make them fit any better.
The soundboards of aftermarket rebuilders have demonstrated far superior craftsmanship t the factory restoration,(I have sent many, many pianos through that department before finding much nicer results elsewhere).


My 2 cents,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Steinway Rebuild Costs Question [Re: Rich Galassini] #1947102
08/22/12 08:50 AM
08/22/12 08:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Larry Buck  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
Rich,

I am going to disagree, other parts are not necessarily better.

I want to be very clear, the use of alternate parts in the Steinway you mention was not because they are better.

If anyone has the legitimate experience, Steinway parts are as easy as any other and in some cases, "clearly easier".

In the case of hammers, clearly different. AND, if that is THE sound the client IS asking for, clearly the only choice.

Again on Hammers, Ronsen is a very similar choice.

This is not to say there are not other choices that clients and technicians feel, sounds good.

To say the alternate choices are better, says only they are better for you. Strictly a subjective choice NOT a broader fact. I maintain that anyone stating "better" as a broad fact is acknowledging a lack of experience and skill.

If some choices are made for expedience, then better as an expedient is a case that can be made for that ones individual needs. If ones "individual needs are that they are only experienced in a particular manufacturers parts, well then. that can be stated as that. But this clearly limits potential results on behalf of the client.

We have, as an industry, given up so many interesting results in the name of "expedients".



"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances
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