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#1946725 - 08/21/12 02:29 PM Feurich vs Hailun  
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elil Offline
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I'm in the process of deciding between a Feurich or Hailun 178cm grand piano. Unfortunately they are both sold by different dealers in two dissimilar locations, making it impossible to compare them tonally and technically. If anyone has played, or is familiar with, both pianos, I would greatly appreciate their opinion as to the differences in the tone quality and touch of the two instruments. Also which, inyour opinion is the better quality instrument?

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#1946730 - 08/21/12 02:54 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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I wouldn't say "impossible to compare" but clearly more difficult.
Perhaps you can find a way to get a decent recording of each to try and help you decide or maybe go back again and try each for an extended period of time with the same pieces?

Do they sound/feel quite similar to you or is it more that you are having a difficult time remembering the sound/touch?

#1946746 - 08/21/12 03:35 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Aren't they the same thing? The Hailun was marketed in Europe as Wendl & Lung. But now Feurich. Same piano I thought. Hailun definitely makes the Feurich 178. Unless you are talking about a (much more expensive) German Feurich?

#1946753 - 08/21/12 03:45 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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If they are the same price, and you like them equally, I would definitely get the Feurich. There is much more prestige in the name and supposidly the Feurich has extra prep done in Germany. Also, I love the open music rack as I can hear the piano much better that way.


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#1946754 - 08/21/12 03:46 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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In the case of the model 178, I believe they are the same design and same quality. I think there are design differences in the upright models.

This is a great opportunity to compare dealer prep, indicators of aftersale service and price.

Forum member BoseEric represents Feurich and would have the most information regarding the Hailun built Feurich pianos.


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#1947091 - 08/22/12 07:07 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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The Feurich 178 is based on the Hailun design, but the Feurich has specific features that set it apart from the Hailun. The Feurich design seeks to develop a specific European tone through components and the prep process, which is an integral part of the brand.

#1947127 - 08/22/12 08:41 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: BoseEric]  
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Originally Posted by BoseEric
The Feurich design seeks to develop a specific European tone through components and the prep process, which is an integral part of the brand.


Gee Eric!

It's nice of you to resist the opportunity to hawk your wares here but hardly necessary in this case. Anyone who reads here regularly knows that's not your MO, and the question calls for specifics beyond what Feurich "seeks" to do.

If there are component differences that affect tone production, why not state what they are? And even if it's more a matter of prep than build, aren't you the guy who preps them for the US market?

"European tone" always sounds nice as a catchphrase, but a reveiw of the tone of European pianos proves that the phrase can mean many different and sometimes opposite things.





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#1947132 - 08/22/12 08:56 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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I'd like to know the differences too. Living in the UK there are no Hailun branded pianos here. Just the Wendl & Lung which is now branded Feurich. I can find decent online demos of the Hailun but there is almost nothing in relation to the Feurich. I'm engaged in a tentative search for an acoustic after many many years of digitals and a brief and disappointing ownership experience with a Yamaha GC1. Might go upright, might go grand, not sure yet. But the Feurich 161 or 178 would high on my list. So as much information as possible would be gratefully received!

Steve

#1947136 - 08/22/12 09:06 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Steve

Here is a Youtube video of a British pianist Paul Barton - now living in Thailand - playing a Wendl & Lung (now Feurich) 178. There are several videos of him available - and also him playing a Wendl & Lung 122 upright.

He recently purchased a Feurich 218 for himself, and look on Youtube for him playing that instrument as well. I believe he also purchased a 122 upright for his teaching studio as well. I have corresponded with him and he loves both instruments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8IBiXgenxk


There will be no Hailun brand in Europe - Feurich has the exclusive rights there as I understand.


#1947137 - 08/22/12 09:10 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Originally Posted by elil
I'm in the process of deciding between a Feurich or Hailun 178cm grand piano. Unfortunately they are both sold by different dealers in two dissimilar locations, making it impossible to compare them tonally and technically. If anyone has played, or is familiar with, both pianos, I would greatly appreciate their opinion as to the differences in the tone quality and touch of the two instruments. Also which, inyour opinion is the better quality instrument?


I would give a great deal of weight to the quality of the dealer. In this case, especially because I am friends with the Feurich dealer and know how much prep they give their instruments, I say go with the Feurich, hands down.


Last edited by Furtwangler; 09/28/12 07:19 PM.
#1947169 - 08/22/12 10:12 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Furtwangler]  
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The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components. Most pianos can be shipped from the factory to your house quality intact, uncrated, and prepped on site, by-passing the dealer completely, which, considering the consumer has one less mouth to feed and listen to, is a plus.

Hailun produces stencil pianos for various folks under various business arangements, the 178’s and smaller mostly with a laminated soundboard, in my opinion mediocre for the most part with varying functionality as a musical instrument, and, as evident from the recording, not a lot to love.

Mike


smoke 'em if you got 'em
#1947172 - 08/22/12 10:23 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Mike Carr]  
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Originally Posted by Mike Carr

The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components. Most pianos can be shipped from the factory to your house quality intact, uncrated, and prepped on site, by-passing the dealer completely, which, considering the consumer has one less mouth to feed and listen to, is a plus.

Hailun produces stencil pianos for various folks under various business arangements, the 178’s and smaller mostly with a laminated soundboard, in my opinion mediocre for the most part with varying functionality as a musical instrument, and, as evident from the recording, not a lot to love.

Mike


Mike

Thanks, as always, for your insightful comments.


#1947173 - 08/22/12 10:25 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Sure a piano can be drop-shipped directly to the home. It doesn't cut out the dealer, however. The builders don't sell to consumers directly. Certainly, you can select a piano at the factory, but then, the sale will be conducted through an authorized dealer.


Marty in Minnesota

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#1947179 - 08/22/12 10:37 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Mike Carr]  
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Originally Posted by Mike Carr
The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components.
IMO most people would include the quality of the dealer prep as part of the quality of the piano they're buying unless they hope to transform the piano after purchase(not a good idea I think).

The quality of the dealer prep is one aspect of the the "quality of the dealer". Nothing complicated to understand here.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/22/12 10:38 AM.
#1947192 - 08/22/12 10:58 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Furtwangler]  
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Originally Posted by Furtwangler
Steve
Here is a Youtube video of a British pianist Paul Barton - now living in Thailand - playing a Wendl & Lung (now Feurich) 178. There are several videos of him available - and also him playing a Wendl & Lung 122 upright.


Thank you very much indeed for this!

Cheers,

Steve

#1947214 - 08/22/12 11:45 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Quote
"European tone" always sounds nice as a catchphrase, but a reveiw of the tone of European pianos proves that the phrase can mean many different and sometimes opposite things.


Good point.

Perhaps what's really meant is "non-Japanese"

Norbert wink

Last edited by Norbert; 08/22/12 11:46 AM.

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#1947217 - 08/22/12 11:50 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Quote
The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components.


First price award for the most ignorant statement ever made.

Norbert thumb


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#1947223 - 08/22/12 12:12 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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I've never found a satisfactory smiley for eye-rolling. I don't think it is any more serious than that.

If there once was (perhaps through the Wendl & Lung European distribution), I don't think there is any prep in Germany for Hailun made Feurichs. Hailun USA has made several different hammer choices and several different factory prep routines as the pianos are being refined. Feurich is probably making their own choices in this regard. Those are not qualitative in terms of materials or manufacturing level, but subjective due to the manufacturer's goals as Eric said. Small changes can make them more or less alike, but I believe they have the same scale design.

Currently, Hailun specs German Abel hammers in all of the N.American grands. Not long ago, they had used a clone of a certain Renner hammer on the 178 and smaller, and before that, something else. Outside of N.America, you have a different distributor driving the bus.

For perspective, I understand there are scale design differences in the Hailun built Cunningham models. Without dragging Rich into the room, the differences including and beyond the scale design are likewise quality neutral but do affect the subjective performance evaluations to win a customer's selection. Likewise, the dealer experience matters both for things that affect quality and those that affect relationships.

If the customer is a curmudgeon, then they might not put much value on the dealer experience, good or bad. There is a solution for that, too...buy a boxed unit, hire your own tech, etc.

These are examples of modern brand differentiation in the complex arrangement of global piano manufacturing. I think it is fair to call them stencils in the manufacturing sense of the word, however the other connotation of stencil piano has meant cheap. Hailun and their competing partner brands (oxymoron, I know) are squarely targeted at the middle (and sometimes higher), not the bottom.


Sam Bennett
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#1947262 - 08/22/12 01:22 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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First sorry my english!
I am interested in feurich (ningbo) 218​​. Someone tell whether it is superior to Hailun HG218?
I'm from Brazil and here the Feurich not arrived.


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#1947273 - 08/22/12 01:39 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Mike Carr]  
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Originally Posted by Mike Carr
... in my opinion mediocre for the most part with varying functionality as a musical instrument, and, as evident from the recording, not a lot to love.

That's quite ok! I play maybe 30 minutes a week. Maybe I should have bought used, too.

#1947379 - 08/22/12 04:48 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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For those who wish, I have included a link to photos and a video (a bad one unfortunately) of the new Cunningham 5'4". Notice the different plate design and bridge placement, particularly at the break.

http://cunninghaminstruments.blogspot.com/2012/07/new-cunningham-54-studio-grand-in.html

Don't worry Sam, I do not feel dragged in. smile


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#1947447 - 08/22/12 06:43 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Rich, please get a tripod. wink

For anyone not already following along, I've pointed out a couple of visible areas where you can see differences in scale design. While you cannot clearly see the Cunningham bridge, you can see that the shape of the string termination in the tenor has a different shape, you can see plate differences beyond the obvious cosmetics. You can see changes in the duplex scaling, too.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
The Hailun pictured (top) is a model HG 161 in polished walnut, hence no "birdseye" inner rim.


Sam Bennett
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#1947522 - 08/22/12 09:00 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Norbert]  
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components.


First price award for the most ignorant statement ever made.

Norbert thumb


Well what do you expect from the infamous Hailun house troll.
At least for once he forgot to fling his usual "plywood" around when talking about Hailun's soundboards.
Now apparently they are designated as "stencil" pianos in his hateful and Hailun loathing mind.

The guy is a riot and predictable as it comes.

#1947524 - 08/22/12 09:02 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Woops, I'm getting pulled over but I don't think I'm getting a ticket this time!

I don't want to say anything can remotely be considered criticizing Hailun. We're competitors to some degree but we also have a shared interest in keeping manufacturing costs down. Besides, they make a fine piano that many people like and have purchased.

Yes, the Feurich 178 is based on the standard Hailun 178 manufacturer offering. We specify some different components (yawn), we have our own staffer from Vienna doing final QC on each Feurich (yawn yawn), and there is me supervising the brand image and identity here (what's on TV...).

To really understand the differences, one must try both. Not so easy with current Feurich availability I know. What we (Ernest Bittner and his team in Vienna and Julius Feurich and me) are trying to do is offer a piano with subtle, more "European" differences. This is coloring that cannot be properly described in a list of components.

The design is of course important, the prep very much so and the dealer is critical. If the nature of the brand is going to come out, all three components (maker, prep, dealer) must do their complete part.

To those who haven't experienced the difference a really great dealer can make, I'm sorry for you.




#1947535 - 08/22/12 09:15 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Sparky McBiff]  
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Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff
Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components.


First price award for the most ignorant statement ever made.

Norbert thumb


Well what do you expect from the infamous Hailun house troll.
At least for once he forgot to fling his usual "plywood" around when talking about Hailun's soundboards.
Now apparently they are designated as "stencil" pianos in his hateful and Hailun loathing mind.

The guy is a riot and predictable as it comes.


I second that! The "Hailun Hater" strikes again!


J.D.
Hailun 178
#1947570 - 08/22/12 10:08 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Different designs by some makers producing pianos under different names, i.e. "stencils" is IMHO far less confusing/controversial than those producing whole series of pianos with entirely different quality under same name.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 08/22/12 10:28 PM.

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#1947637 - 08/23/12 02:59 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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Strange discussion. We are talking about low budget pianos, right? How come that so many people are interested in the origin of parts or the details of production? Go trying and play a Feurich or Hailun or whatever, and if you like it: fine, get one.

It´s strange that people want to know in detail which components are used in a specific piano and it´s strange as well that many manufacturer don´t want to give these information to the public. Bechstein for example was involved in a discussion in a German piano forum as to the origin of the components used in Bechstein pianos. They made a statement that they don´t publish these information because that can change over time and furthermore Bechstein does not define its quality by the quality of the component supplier but the other way round: the component supplier has to deliver the quality that Bechstein expects. What a cool statement!

While I can understand somehow that people want to know details of their high end piano it´s hard to understand why people insist in gathering so many details of their low budget piano. And don´t get me wrong by using the term low budget: I sell Feurich and I love them smile

Gregor



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#1947662 - 08/23/12 05:55 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]  
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I miss the Wendl & Lung. Yes, I know, nee Feurich. I just liked the name. Sort of properly British. Less Teutonic. Reminded me of Knight and Kemble. Alas.

[Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1947670 - 08/23/12 06:38 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I miss the Wendl & Lung. Yes, I know, nee Feurich. I just liked the name. Sort of properly British. Less Teutonic. Reminded me of Knight and Kemble. Alas.

[Linked Image]


That's funny, because to be Wendl & Lung sounds every bit as Germanic as Feurich. Certainly doesn't sound British to me. And yes, I do speak fluent German.

#1947676 - 08/23/12 06:50 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: ando]  
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I miss the Wendl & Lung. Yes, I know, nee Feurich. I just liked the name. Sort of properly British. Less Teutonic. Reminded me of Knight and Kemble. Alas.

[Linked Image]


That's funny, because to be Wendl & Lung sounds every bit as Germanic as Feurich. Certainly doesn't sound British to me. And yes, I do speak fluent German.


Not to me. I always thought that spoken German sounded like a throat desease, rather than a language, anyway. At least in the USA, I've never heard it pronounced fVendel und Luung.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Question about Accidentals and Dynamics
by Batuhan. 11/24/17 05:55 PM
2017 Piano Library Discussion
by Jay017. 11/24/17 05:44 PM
Kawai CA67 owners - is the stereo correct?
by Ben Crosland. 11/24/17 02:51 PM
Tonal and Rhytmic Principles by John Mehegan
by James in NoVa. 11/24/17 01:12 PM
HiFiMAN HE-400i headphones - Incredible deal
by Max_Forte. 11/24/17 12:29 PM
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