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#1946555 - 08/21/12 07:12 AM FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request?  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
Carl_in_ON Offline
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Carl_in_ON  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
Toronto, ON
Hi all,

It's been about a month since our Brodmann PE 125 was delivered to our home. Tomorrow it will receive its first in-home tuning. I'm wondering what it is I should expect from a good first service in terms of services performed, if any, beyond just tuning the strings. Also, are there any checks/adjustments I should request?

So far the piano has been performing well, though I can hear that it is a bit out of tune. That being said, I still find the bass/treble break a bit jarring sometimes. Also, I occasionally find that some of the keys near the break (range C3 to C4) feel like they're getting 'caught' on something, especially if the note was played very lightly or hesitantly. Mind you I'm not a pianist (but I'm learning along with my daughter), so this could just be my poor touch at work. I plan to mention all of this (and demonstrate if I can) but thought I'd sound out the board too.

Thanks,
Carl.


Carl_in_TO
----------------------
Brodmann PE125
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#1946562 - 08/21/12 07:27 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
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Rich Galassini Offline
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Rich Galassini  Offline
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Philadelphia/South Jersey
Hi Carl,

Different dealers have different expectations for the first in home tuning. Some employ full time technicians and some subcontract. Some give technicians a limit on time spent in the home and some do not.

My advice would be to share your concerns with the technician just as you are doing. Hopefully there is time set aside for some additional work. Certainly in a first service situation, there should be. (By the way, based on your description, the work should be no big deal)

In the future share these issues with your technician before he/she comes out. This way they can prepare and plans their time accordingly.

My 2 cents,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#1946566 - 08/21/12 07:54 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Nicely put Rich.

As a technician, I generally plan on a "tuning" when coming out for the first tuning on a new piano, but as a rule, I allow 30 minutes additional for "just in case type of things" that are minor issues fixable within that time frame. If they are not, I will return at a later date rather than be late for my next appointment. smile

It is always appreciated when the customer informs us ahead of time of other possible issues/problems so that we can try to plan our time accordingly. If we need the additional time, great, we have it set aside. If not, that's great too. we get home earlier! smile At least we're not crammed for the rest of the day then. smile



Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1946581 - 08/21/12 09:01 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,497
Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,497
Florida
Good advice from above.....A piano usually takes time to settle in. Adjustments and voicing are part of the break in process. Communication with your tech is the key to your piano performing to your expectations.

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#1946607 - 08/21/12 10:02 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Jul 2009
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Pianolance Offline
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Pianolance  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,217
Nashville, TN
I would write every concern down on a pad of paper and leave it on the piano. Note every key that is giving you concern, be as specific as possible. Such things as C6 key seems to get caught when playing very softly. Be as specific as possible. Note anything and everything.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
#1966547 - 09/29/12 09:36 PM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
newtopiano88 Offline
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newtopiano88  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Hi Carl,

I'm looking to buy the Brodmann PE125 this month. May I ask how much did you pay for your piano and where did you buy it?

Questions to All:
1. Is it common for the dealer to pass along shipping charges to me on top of their sale price?
2. I found another dealer in another state that sells it a lot cheaper than my local dealer but I have to pay for interstate shipping cost. Its still going to be cheaper than my local dealer! How do I know if its not a grey market piano? Should I ask for the serial number before the purchase so that I could check with Brodmann themselves to find out more information about that piano?
3. Do dealers commonly ship across the nation?
4. Do you know who in the nation sells this piano at a good price?

Please give me advice.

Thanks!!

#1966599 - 09/29/12 11:56 PM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
Queensland, Australia
newtopiano88 - you need to consider the potential value of dealing with a local dealer as far as service or warranty issues. Shipping charges are part of the negotiation when you purchase - and that depends on your location and ease of access. General advice is to play THE piano you intend to purchase, and to ensure that is the piano which is delivered. Which is not generally viable if ordering interstate. A piano which hasn't been prepared sufficiently and sent from interstate - could be a nightmare, or at least cost you dearly to pay for your technician to do this work.

[Though - I broke this rule by ordering a piano from a catalogue, but through a local dealer. It isn't possible for a small dealer to keep a full range of high-end pianos in stock.]


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1966682 - 09/30/12 07:22 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
NTP88,

What *nation* are you located in? This is an international forum.

Shipping/delivery charges are always discussed with the dealer and one who provides free delivery in a 300 mile/km radius should not be expected to ship out of the area at no additional cost. Those situations are always discussed as part of sales negotiations.

Often it is possible to work through a local dealer to purchase a specific piano on the floor of another dealer (distant) carrying the same brand. However, it would be based on the pricing and policies of the local dealership. For stores which have multiple locations, in different cities, pianos are often transported at N/C. This usually applies to high level pianos and not entry level variates, however.

If you are shopping for a musical instrument in the same way as price shopping for a major appliance, we wish you well.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1966887 - 09/30/12 03:48 PM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
newtopiano88 Offline
Junior Member
newtopiano88  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Sorry, I'm in US and I thought this website is mainly participated by people in US.

I have a relative who lives in the other state where I found the exact piano model but at least $3K cheaper than my local dealer. They also ship to me. My relatives can go to the physical shop to play and test the piano and get the serial number for me to make sure that's the exact piano that I'll be buying and I can check the information on the piano through the manufacturer. The other dealer from another state buy in bulk hence pricing is a lot cheaper.

The warranty comes from the manufacturer right? So no matter where I live I'll still have the 10 year warranty? If the out of state piano seller can arrange a technician here for servicing, would that still be a problem? I've already played this model at my local dealer but they are just outrageously over priced! The local dealer's sale price plus shipping is almost equivalent or more than retail price. I thought they typically sell the piano at 20% lesser than the retail price, no? The local dealer is the only one that carries the piano so I don't have easy access to this model so to speak.

#1966955 - 09/30/12 05:27 PM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
It's common for us to order boots or shoes online and pay shipping and handling charges. It's common practice for car dealerships to charge shipping charges too so, yes it would be fair for the piano dealer to also charge for that.

Remember this.... You most often get what you pay for. Especially in this business!!

$3,000 less does NOT mean you're getting a well prepped, brand new, fantastic piano. In fact, more than likely it would be the complete opposite and once you get it, they are not going to come back and pick it up again should you not like the thing...

Should you have a problem with the piano during transit or after you get it, NO local dealer will help you with these problems because you did not buy it from them.

Don't shop for a tuner the same way you're shopping for a piano because you won't find anyone good that way. All techs know what they are worth and most charge accordingly. wink

Maybe, the out of state dealer, is outrageously UNDER priced?? wink Dealers have the right to make a fair profit too.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1967009 - 09/30/12 06:43 PM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,011
master88er Offline
1000 Post Club Member
master88er  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,011
San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted by Jerry Groot RPT
It's common for us to order boots or shoes online and pay shipping and handling charges. It's common practice for car dealerships to charge shipping charges too so, yes it would be fair for the piano dealer to also charge for that.

Remember this.... You most often get what you pay for. Especially in this business!!

$3,000 less does NOT mean you're getting a well prepped, brand new, fantastic piano. In fact, more than likely it would be the complete opposite and once you get it, they are not going to come back and pick it up again should you not like the thing...

Should you have a problem with the piano during transit or after you get it, NO local dealer will help you with these problems because you did not buy it from them.

Don't shop for a tuner the same way you're shopping for a piano because you won't find anyone good that way. All techs know what they are worth and most charge accordingly. wink

Maybe, the out of state dealer, is outrageously UNDER priced?? wink Dealers have the right to make a fair profit too.


VERY well stated, and I agree.

However, what you COULD do is give your local guy a call, or visit, and explain that you have found the piano in another state for $XXXX and that while you would prefer to purchase from him, the price difference is substantial. Then ask him NICELY if there is something he could to to make purchasing the piano from him more, uh, palatable?!


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765
#1967124 - 09/30/12 11:08 PM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
newtopiano88 Offline
Junior Member
newtopiano88  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
I understand if I order something out of another state and I have to pay shipping and handling cost. Thats given but you mean I have to pay shipping and handling if I buy it from my local dealer too?!

#1967145 - 10/01/12 12:43 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
No matter how you look at it, the purchaser is always paying for the shipping and handling. From the factory, from the distributor, from the dealer, to you. Those costs are always there. It is just how they are explained to you that is different.

A local dealership will most often deliver at no additional cost, but you are still paying for it in the purchase price of the piano.

Econ-101 wink

Meanwhile, back to Carl's thread ....................


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1967187 - 10/01/12 05:30 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Carl_in_ON]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
Queensland, Australia
You need to forget about shipping, handling, preparation, import, airfreight to USA - any costs. Some dealers will quote you a retail price which will include delivery within a few kilometres. I was involved in 3 piano purchases in the last 3 years (2 for me, one for my mum). The 2 high end grands were delivered "free" - but I'm sure I paid for them (one was 65km). The other (upright Yamaha) had delivery added.

What you need to ensure is that the dealer preparation occurs. You can see delivery - the piano has arrived. You can't see dealer preparation - which can be up to a full day by a technician (maybe more?), depending on the piano. Buying a piano which, by playing it a couple of times at your local dealer, you know has been prepared like you wish is far safer than buying from out-of-town a piano which you don't know if you're happy with. If the one from out-of-town arrives, and you don't like the touch or voicing, you can't expect him to fix it. But your local dealer, generally if you tell him you'd like the piano, except for something, he will "fix" it and you can play it again in the showroom before making a definite order. The local dealer will also know which technicians are in the local area, or have his own.

They're not like television sets, every one is different, sometimes a lot, and the initial preparation can make a huge difference.

I'm not familiar with Brodmann PE125 - I assume you've looked at equivalent pianos by other manufacturers prior to this.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1967250 - 10/01/12 10:32 AM Re: FIrst In-Home Tuning - What to Expect/Request? [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Posts: 10,856
Steve Cohen Offline
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Steve Cohen  Offline
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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
No matter how you look at it, the purchaser is always paying for the shipping and handling. From the factory, from the distributor, from the dealer, to you. Those costs are always there. It is just how they are explained to you that is different.

A local dealership will most often deliver at no additional cost, but you are still paying for it in the purchase price of the piano.

Econ-101 wink



Spot on! The buyer ALWAYS pays ALL the expenses involved in the purchase. There is no "Free" delivery, but rather some dealers include the delivery in the prices quoted. The same applies to tuning, prep, lessons, etc.


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