Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Which DECENT upright piano should I buy?

Hi guys, I've been reading these forums for a while to make sure I make a good purchase.
I'm looking for a piano that can last over the years, something decent. Altough I've been playing for several years already, this is my first piano. I will be playing especially classical music (ie Chopin) and therefore I'd like the tone quality to be at the level of the pieces

The problem, as always, is the money. I was looking for something in the 4k€ range. I know its little for a piano, but I could wait more that meant a significant difference.
Also, I live in flat, so I don't want anything noisy (actually, the smaller and less noisier the better). Is it true really that bigger the piano is, better de sound?

What would you recommend me? As for what I've researched, Kawai K2 or K3 seems the best option. I really like the touch of it. Is there much difference between these 2 models? Would it be worth to invest a little more? The problem is where is the limits, as always you will be able to found a more expensive piano.
What about other brands, I'm also considering Yamaha, Schimmel, Petrof, Zimmerman and Sauter. What about these?

Thank you!

NB. I live in Spain (Valencia), so maybe some of the brands you tell me are not readily available here.

If looking at new pianos, I would consider the Korean brands in your price range. If considering used pianos, your list looks reasonable, although a used Sauter for 4K will be hard to find.

Hi CarlosQ,

No matter how high you climb the piano ladder, you can always invest more.

In my opinion, 4000 euros is not so small. I would recommend only spending more if you are dissatisfied with what you find at your price.

Something you might consider is a Silent Series from Yamaha or Kemble. They are quite similar and are a viable option for shrinking the sound without shrinking the instrument. It's nice to have a good-sized vertical for those opportunities you have to play it full out (even if the opportunities are few).

I would add Bohemia and Schulz Pollmann to the list. Schulz - P are pricy in the US, but seem to be available at very competitive prices in Europe.

If you find a new Sauter 122 cm or more for 4000 euros, please order two. I'll reimburse you and pay the freight for mine.

carlos,

prices for pianos are low in Germany, especially for used ones. 4000 Euros should get you a nice piano, for example a used Bechstein or Pfeiffer (!!!). To get a first impression, take a look at ebay.de Germany. Transport is no problem.

Yes, bigger very often is better, but not louder.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for you awnsers. I really appreciate it.
Aren't the Silent Series a given model, with and added option to make it "silent" when you want?, (giving you the option to listen to it through a headset). I've seen the same model made "silent" signficantly more expensive than the "not-silent".
BTW, I think I havent seen those brands in the shops here, but I'll keep an eye on them.


I've been told buy many people to be extremely aware about 2nd hand pianos. I not very secure on buying a 2nd hand piano. As I've heard, here in my area there is lot of musical tradition and therefore any 2nd good piano is rapidly sold to someone near to the owner. Therefore, the pianos that are left, are usually in a bad state and aren't worth it.


Does anyone know the differences (apart from size) between K2 and K3?

carlos,

I don't know the 2nd hand market round Valencia, but I know this market in Germany very well. There are lot's of bad pianos out there, but also many many excellent. For 4000 Euro you CAN get a fantastic piano. Do some research:
Bechstein, Blüthner, Schimmel, Sauter etc. etc. and especially Pfeiffer.

carlos:

It would be more practical to offer us some ideas of specific pianos which are actually available for sale in you area - all within your stated price range.

Generally throwing around name brands won't help much - I would recommend Fazioli...

norbert

Norbert,

yes, if you happen to have a source of used faziolis for 4000 Euros, please let me know. I'll will buy some of them straight away

Sometimes IMHO throwing around brand names can be helpful, as a guidance.

You are looking at good pianos, and the Kawai you have targeted would certainly be fine.

Schimmel has a reputation for making especially good uprights, and I think rightly so, but you will have to get a used Schimmel to get into your price range. Going used is often a great option: a quality piano has a long lifetime, and the price of a quality used piano goes down much faster than its value, in my opinion.

A taller piano will have a larger soundboard and therefore will, all other things being equal, have greater volume potential. Voicing can quiet down a piano to some extent: brighter tones usually are perceived as louder, while mellower tones usually are preceived as quieter.

On the other hand, an upright must have a certain minimum volume potential to sound good, in my opinion. I have never heard a spinet that I really liked; I have rarely heard an upright under 48" that I liked; I have heard many 48" uprights that were quite nice; and I have heard 52" uprights that rival smaller grands for sound quality (but never for touch).

If you like Kawai, you should definitely check out some Yamahas before you buy. The sound of Yamaha is quite similar to Kawai, and, in my opinion, the touch of Yamaha is among the very best available in an upright. Many, many Yamaha uprights that I have played had absolutely mind-reading touch, extremely easy to play, super-pleasant for your hands. Every individual piano is different, of course, but you should be able to find a Yamaha upright with that magnificent "signature Yamaha" touch which you will surely recognize the instant you test-drive a piano that has it. I once purchased a used Yamaha U3 upright, which eventually I gave up for a grand, and it was a great value: a lot of piano for the money.

Of the other pianos you mentioned, I have played Petrof uprights and liked them. They are good quality and generally have a richer, darker, more "European" sound than the bright Kawai. Of course Sauter is extremely high-end, and while it is an absolutely great piano, I doubt you can find a good one in your price range, even used.

In sum, you probably cannot go wrong with Kawai, I recommend that you at least check out Yamaha and Schimmel, and if you want to look at higher-end options other than Kawai, you probably should consider a used piano.

Good luck!

Thanks for your advice!. Again, I'll take into account. I'm very keen to Yamahas too, but I'm quite lost as to which series or model should I be looking for, there are so many. As for the second hand advice, I am not very confident on buying a 2nd hand piano without being a piano technician, I'd be afraid of buying a supposidely good 2nd hand piano and the regreting because it had some kind of problem.
Thanks again.

There certainly are a lot of models. The old standard for Yamaha that is decent enough for almost anyone is the U1. In Spain it will designated EI U1.

If you like it and can't afford new, buy as close to new as your can. Anything used you can check the age in the Yamaha website through the serial number. When you look at any vertical, look for a practice pedal. If you can live with the effect it has on the action, it will help with your living in a flat with nearby neighbors.

To answer your question from before, yes. A silent series model is more expensive than the same model without it.

Just a thought: if you find a used upright that you like, then you can hire a technician (not affiliated with the dealer) to check it for you. Chances are he will give it his approval. Then you still spend a lot less than you would for a new piano.

Remember that a quality piano (like Yamaha) has a very long life-time. Two or three years is barely a blink in the life of a good upright: it will be almost the same piano it was new, yet you pay much less for it. The technician's opinion will give you peace of mind, and you get way more for your money.

Just a suggestion. Good luck whatever you do!

carlosq

Kawai K2 and K3 are excellent pianos .....
For information go to: Kawaius.com

Touch and tone are the guidelines for choosing any piano.
Pick the piano that sounds best to you and has the touch that feels best to you ..

Chopin is especially nice on my Yamaha U3 (52") vertical. You might also try a Mason & Hamlin 50 (a bit more expensive). The Kawai K3 is suitable, but I find its tone a bit unrefined compared to Yamaha, and esp. the Mason.

I.Bruton,

how to find a Mason in Spain???

http://www.gle.org/ingles/i_historia.php

and a Hamlin ?

carlos,

just an example:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Grotrian-Steinwe...796QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Finally, I GOT THE PIANO!

After looking brand new pianos (I was leaning definetly for the K3 for 4500€, the dealer told me it was the most sold for their superb price/quality). Suddenly I asked for any 2nd hand piano, he looked in the workshop (the store is quite big) and they had a Kawai K50 that Kawai brought them at a lower price, as it had been for exposition. The hammers and everything where as new, he said that was a much better piano than the K3, and he warrantied that it was in perfect state. He also told me that a piano of that kind would be sold very promptly.
Finally, I decided for it (for round 5000€). The dealer offered the same warranty as it if was new, and seemed very honest when he told me that it was much worthier piano for that price than the K3.

Somebody could talk me something about the K50? The dealer told me this was the "worst" piano from the "definate" pianos (pianos that are meant to last for all your life). Obviously, profesionals would buy a good grand piano instead, but I'm talking about the average person.
Is it true is much better? (I still haven't signed nor payed anything).

Thanks!