Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Steinway Rebuild Costs Question

Greetings,
Be aware that this is about as self-serving a "guide" as you will likely to find. For some reason, the brand thinks that pricing their parts higher is proof of their superiority. I don't use many factory parts because there are longer lasting, more accurately made parts available. They desperately try to tell us that it is only a Steinway if they are the only ones supplying the parts. It overlooks the fact that the modern parts are not like the originals, and branding them "Steinway" doesn't make them fit any better.
The soundboards of aftermarket rebuilders have demonstrated far superior craftsmanship t the factory restoration,(I have sent many, many pianos through that department before finding much nicer results elsewhere).

I felt like I needed to take a shower after reading that Steinway rebuild site - something very unclean about it. Parts reputed superiority was only based on price. Value of soundboard based only on the "fact" that you can only get a top quality soundboard by sending the whole piano to their factory. Value of a restoration based only on length of time - never mind that there may be rebuilders who spend far more time on a restoration than 6 months, and that the time they have it has no relationship to the time spent on it, so it's a null statement in the first place. All that talk of retaining market value because of the use of approved parts is really cartel-style behaviour. It's worth that much because it's worth that much, and it's set by the company itself and the dealers they have control over. Once people buy into this, the notion of quality becomes irrelevant - it's just about factory stamps and certificates.

Honestly, the more I read about Steinway as a company the more I feel uncomfortable about them. I feel like selling my family's Steinway K upright which lives at my mother's and making a fresh start. The artist program that can only be described as anti-competitive, makes me feel bad about seeing their pianos at concert halls now. The mere fact that we talk about them as "company A" as a rhetorical device in our threads. Are we all scared of them now? Will they come after me for writing this post? Am I going to be sued for defamation for holding this opinion, even though I own one of their pianos?

It's funny because as I was growing up, I dreamed of having a Steinway grand because it was just universally agreed that they were the ultimate pianos. There was no accounting for it other than they were expensive and could be found in concert halls and in the best homes and buildings. It just seemed to be an agreed upon fact of life. Now that I know the background of how Steinway achieved its market dominance, all that mythology is being debunked for me. I no longer feel any attraction to them as a brand. I don't honestly know how to assess their instruments anymore - and I don't aspire to own one. I don't even feel the romance I used to about the Steinway upright that my family owns. I'll probably sell it once my parents pass away - which hopefully won't be for a while yet.

What is a Steinway piano? Just an instrument, or a monolith of thought-control?

I just don't like what's happening here. Gives me the willies...

Well, maybe now that they are under new ownership things will change.

IMHO, Steinway as done a nice job on advertising.

Personally, I like the manufacturers, including Steinway.

Steinway's parts dept. is well run and responsive. I use Steinway parts in Steinway pianos and my clients love the results.

It is certainly a consideration with merit that using parts original to the manufacturer represents that manufacturers original intent best.

Meeting a client's expectations or better yet, exceeding those expectations has much more to do with "overall skill", which in my opinion, is the single largest "expense" in any work done.

I fear that going down the road of vilifying, leads nowhere.

But isn't that more or less what Steinway does to others with its own promotional material? Everything else in inferior, lacks in value.

Besides, this is a forum where people can express their thoughts on something. I am yet to see somebody on this forum who is comfortable with the Steinway Artist program, and lots of people who aren't. Likewise, Steinway doesn't just extoll the virtues of its own parts, it actively denigrates the alternatives. Where do you think that is leading?

That's definitely the way it comes across to a lot of people.

I have enormous respect for all the manufacturers, not just Steinway.

Aside from that, I would submit my own work for inspection by any and all.

You are right, this IS a forum of opinions. I submit my opinions and ask for no greater consideration than given any others.

Indeed, about that we are in fierce agreement.

Larry, this is a sincere question. How helpful is today's Steinway parts department when you are rebuilding a Centennial? Or an 1890's A?

I like the people I speak with there as well, but they are not in the business of providing historic parts, at least none that they actually make. There are manufacturers who are and who provide better materials for historic pianos.

I sincerely wonder what parts you feel that Steinway is providing today that represent their "original intent" for many of their historic instruments? Am I misunderstanding your statement?

Rich,

In all fairness, you misunderstand historic restoration needs.

And you misunderstand what Steinway is offering.

No offense intended.

I get exactly what I need and everything I need from Steinway for my historic needs.

Larry,

No offense taken.

Please explain to me what I am misunderstanding. If a phone call is easier, by all means call me.

OK,

Tell me what it is about the 1890's A or Centennial that you consider "original intent"?

1, What historical part are you not able to get from this manufacturer? If it is an action part, state exact dimensions.

2, What manufacturer today stocks any of their historical parts?

Greetings,
I think the hammers are at the heart of it. Modern Steinway hammers are a lot farther away from their 1890 hammers than several aftermarket suppliers. If I wanted my 1890 model A to play as close to the original as possible, I am not going to find the hammer to do it in New York.
Regards,

Good Morning Ed,

I don't know what other manufacturer makes their own hammers.

Also, I am not aware of any piano manufacturer offering historical parts of any kind, unless it is used in current manufacturing.

Is any manufacturer of pianos today offering the hammer they made/offered 120 years ago?


Regards

Manufacturers, no, but I have become a big fan of the aftermarket for Steinway parts. More accurate, more durable, and more consistent. The hammers available from Ronsen can come much closer to the hammers Steinway was using in 1900 than what the manufacturer will sell you today. I suppose they can make the case that maple is no different a core than the mahogany they used to use, and the felt density achieved with a soaking of lacquer is no different than the denser felt of yesteryear, and hammers that dwarf the originals deliver better response. I don't agree.

The same goes for damper felt; the originals were smaller and softer, and more evenly cut than the current offering. The key end felt being sold from the manufacturer is much harder than the original, and this hardness can be felt when the key contacts the damper, or the tray drops the underlevers on the the keys during play. If I want the softer felt for this, like the original, I have to go elsewhere.

Even the little things are maddening. The new version of the keyframe guide pin is square, which I can deal with, but the threads that go into the ends of the keyframe are smaller than the originals, so a whole, painstaking procedure has to be gone through to plug and redrill, instead of just screwing in a new pin. Damper wires recently have been made of something that is noisy and cannot be polished completely smooth.

It seems that the whole design philosophy of S&S has moved to heavier hammers, heavier boards, and longer action ratios. This seems to be accompanied by heavier plates. I wonder how much of this is due to trying to improve the response, or making production easier to accomplish. In any event, I have a lot of customers, professional ones, that make a distinction between the pre-war Steinways and the ones made since. Lots of little changes in the manufacturing process culminate in a differently responsive instrument. I am finding a market for the actions with lighter hammers and faster ratios. There is less margin of error, but there is a different response that artists like.

Couple this with the now availability of the WNG composite parts, and magic is available. We have a choice between performance and tradition, and my customers are going for performance.
Regards,

Thanks Ed,

I am also a fan of Ronsen's work. Ray is a unique opportunity for all of us!

I am a fan of Steinway's current production. I am able to utilize current available parts in "antique" pianos where my clients ask for it. Knowing my starting point in the original action and having many options for going forward, I am able to achieve consistent results for my clients.

It does mean I must have SEVERAL ways of viewing my way forward in executing work on those parts. I have jigs for all of those occasions called for, make a jig where I need it and of course, voicing ??? must have an open mind there and also many options for going forward.

FWIW, voicing as I know it is rarely discussed, if ever.

I apologize for carrying on about what "I do" ..

I don;t see that Steinway is any different than any other manufacturer in the way they offer parts. In fact, that they offer a hammer that they themselves make is giving us an opportunity none of the other piano manufacturers offer.

My personal opinion is that this IS a tough business for anyone in pianos. I'd rather work from a positive point.

The other unclean thing about that was the mention of all their "Patents" -- when all the patents they mentioned have expired! That means anyone can legally sell replacement parts that have that technology, like "Diaphragmatic Soundboards" (patent granted in 1936, expired around 1954)

Actually, quite a few piano makers make their own hammers. Yamaha, Kawai, Samick and Young Chang come readily to mind. There may be others.

You're right about the historical parts, though. With some manufacturers parts for a piano made last year can be problematic.

Still, I think Rich has a point. I've encountered several elderly pianos that had been remanufactured by S&S whose performance bore little resemblance to timbral qualities they almost certainly once possessed. Perhaps this is a variable thing as is the performance of their new production.

ddf

Comparing re-builders to Steinway is a slippery slope.

I may not agree with you on who is in a position to criticize.

Thank You for mentioning the manufacturers that make their own hammers. Do any of these manufacturers produce their hammers from 100 years ago?

You jest, of course. In most cases it would be difficult to get hammers made the way they were made last year. In some cases that is a good thing.

ddf