Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
74 registered members (AprilE, accordeur, AZ_Astro, AndyP, Almaviva, 24 invisible), 1,712 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1945978 - 08/20/12 07:09 AM Time of day and tone  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60
peabody Offline
Full Member
peabody  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60
nc
I have noticed that I enjoy the tone of my Estonia piano more in the early morning than the late afternoon on a consistent basis. In the early hours the tone is warmer and changes to become a bit more harsh in the late afternoon hours. Simple humidity does not seem to be the issue. Any thoughts?


Peabody
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1945988 - 08/20/12 07:33 AM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,253
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,253
Melbourne, Australia
Maybe you're more relaxed in the morning? The pressures of the day haven't had a chances to operate on your nerves yet.

#1945996 - 08/20/12 07:52 AM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60
peabody Offline
Full Member
peabody  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60
nc
good point....


Peabody
#1946028 - 08/20/12 09:05 AM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
Queensland, Australia
Even though I'm retired and can play at any time of the day, I more warm up to it - mornings are just OK, afternoons are better, evenings are my best, and improve till the clock tells me that I really should call it a night.

I'm not sure if it's the sound, or my perception of sound - or whether my muscles and joints are finally freed up enough. Or meds (BP etc) are starting to wear off.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1946045 - 08/20/12 09:31 AM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,124
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member
rada  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,124
pagosa springs,co
I think time of day in regards to temperature makes a difference.

rada

#1946094 - 08/20/12 11:11 AM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 821
MU51C JP Offline
500 Post Club Member
MU51C JP  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 821
England


Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 52 years in the United Kingdom
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com
#1946101 - 08/20/12 11:18 AM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Georgia, USA
Same with my Yamaha C7...

The time of day, temperature, relative humidity, and barometric pressure all have a very slight affect on an acoustic piano’s tone. It is very slight, but still there.

Me personally, I love playing my piano at 3:00am when the moon is bright. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#1946157 - 08/20/12 12:33 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Nashville, TN
I might suggest that the piano might sound best during the time of day when it was last tuned. I noticed that our church piano, a 6'10" Schimmel sounded great in the afternoon on a week day when no one was around but on Sunday morning, with the stage lights on and the room coming to temperature the piano didn't sound so good. I finally started having the tuner come at 10 am and about two hours before she got there I turned the air or heat on and all of the stage lights. From that point, the piano sounded its best on Sunday morning at 10 am with the room coming to temperature and the stage lights on. Of course it didn't sound as refined on a weekday afternoon in a dimmly lit room with minimal heat or air on. Even the piano tuner was amazed that I would notice the difference, but then again she was never there on Sunday morning to check out the difference herself. BTW our piano tuner was Robin Pitts from Maryland, an excellent tuner and PTG member.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
#1946197 - 08/20/12 01:41 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,785
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,785
San Jose, CA
"...Sorry my friend, even having the most experienced tuner who does an exceptionally stable tuning, will not manage to overcome tuning drift caused by humidity and temperature fluctuations..."

That is a nice, friendly post that pretty much says it. But I think all the factors you mentioned will split the pot in this sweepstakes. Your ears are a bit different in the afternoon (the tiny membranes and fluid-filled recesses are likely sensitive to blood flow and pressure, for one thing), and your brain--- which is, after all, where hearing really takes place--- would probably show a different pattern of firing of the neutrons at different times of the day. If you measure mine before and after coffee, I'm SURE the readings would be different.

Temperature and humidity are related in real weather, though they are independently different, truly speaking; anyway, the strings and soundboard are sensitive to them. A dealer once posted here that a cloud passing over the sun would affect the tunings of pianos in his store. Temperature alone affects how much lift an airplane can achieve with the same speed--- a fairly gross effect, compared to the delicacy of the tympanum.

Of course stabilizing conditions in your music room will help, but the slight drift in the piano's voice is part of its charm, at least to me--- within reason. Another member posted the saying, "It's easier to wear slippers than to carpet the world." I'm sorry to say, he was cast out of the forum for not following his own excellent advice. A good example, I suppose, of a beautiful and unique voice that drifted beyond the parameters of toleration.

"Learn to love it as it is," is easier to say than to do, sometimes.

You might try tuning your piano more frequently; maybe four times a year would help it become more stable than once or twice. If you've had it awhile, maybe a little attention to the voicing could help smooth it out.


Clef

#1946244 - 08/20/12 02:41 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Nashville, TN
Has anybody else noticed this. Music from the hifi just seems to sound better after dark. I'm not talking about a piano which is subject to fluxuations of temp and humidity, but recorded music. I first started noticing this in high school when I got a really good stereo for my car. I would listen to the same tape during the day, but it just sounded better at night. Don't know why, but that was my impression anyway.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
#1946246 - 08/20/12 02:43 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,760
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,760
New York City
I think the perception of tone can be very dependent on one's personal mood.

Sometimes I love my Mason BB and sometimes it sounds far less great. It's really impossible to know whether this is caused by the piano's tone, my mood, the particular piece, how well I'm playing, etc.

#1946252 - 08/20/12 02:51 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Nashville, TN
I would like to add, your Estonia is a very highly refined and sensative instrument. Slight changes will affect it, but that's what makes it such a beautiful musical instrument. Think of it this way, you probably wouldn't be having this issue if it was a Kimball or a Wurlitzer. The very thing that makes the Estonia so expressive, with so much color, is that it's sensative. It responds to the slightest variations in touch, so it will also respond to the slightest variations of climate too.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
#1946269 - 08/20/12 03:15 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Georgia, USA
I like to think of this scenario as the piano having somewhat of a personality… I know that sounds bogus, but its true. We are not always in a good mood either. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#1946376 - 08/20/12 06:23 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 445
j&j Offline
Full Member
j&j  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 445
Southwest
Just my perception but I think my musical ear, mood, and technique is affected much more by time of day and whether I've had my coffee, than variations in my piano's tune, voice, and regulation during the day.

Perhaps a more sensitive player could tell, but my Yamaha is pretty stable and I although I can notice some differences over time due to weather and humidity, it isn't so variable that I notice a difference between my morning practice session and when I play it after work.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso
[Linked Image]
#1946409 - 08/20/12 07:21 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: Rickster]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,623
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,623
The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted by Rickster
I like to think of this scenario as the piano having somewhat of a personality… I know that sounds bogus, but its true. We are not always in a good mood either. smile

Rick


There's a scientific/mechanical/physical explanation for everything but sometimes it really is easier to call it magic/personality/voodoo.

We had a client who heard a friend's Fender Princeton (older guitar amp) that made his bits tingle. He went out and bought one but it didn't have that sound. He brought it to us and we suggested what is called a re-cap where all the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply and in the audio path are changed to bring the amp to original spec w/regard to original internal voltages. No good. Still not right. He tried two different speakers. Still no good. He sold the amp as heavily restored and started over with another used Fender that was as close in serial number as he could find (a nationwide search) and another tech with a "guru" reputation. He never did find the "tingle" sound but he make two tech's and two used amp vendors happy. : )

If I were going to guess about a physical cause to the OP's query it would be that the felt on the hammers is taking up or giving off enough moisture with humidity changes to effect the sound. Wool is hydrophobic (water repelling) on the outside and hydrophillic (water attracting) on the inside. If some part of the prep done to the wool strips the lipids from the surface of the wool fibers, they will very happily take up and give off water like a sponge.

My piano sounds different from day to day but it's a cheap korean studio so the "sensitivity" ascribed to the more expensive piano is probably specious.

Kurt




**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
#1946415 - 08/20/12 07:35 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Another consideration, and I believe and important one, it that all of our senses are most acute just after waking from a sound sleep. They diminish throughout the day. The cycle repeats with the rest periods.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1946432 - 08/20/12 08:24 PM Re: Time of day and tone [Re: peabody]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60
peabody Offline
Full Member
peabody  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 60
nc
Thanks to all for the input. Very helpful.


Peabody

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Looking for "rock"piano songs with a specific rhythm
by Wormwith.co. 11/17/17 10:04 PM
I finally inventoried my music!
by gooddog. 11/17/17 09:38 PM
Steinway Teflon Years?
by Duke of Dunning. 11/17/17 09:23 PM
Nord Piano Demo - which do you prefer...?
by Pologuy. 11/17/17 07:02 PM
Do you know this tune?
by mike1234567. 11/17/17 05:46 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,814
Posts2,672,631
Members89,154
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0