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OK. That's where the major comes in!!!
OK the second half of 57 beat one has a D#dim triad with an added C#. How do I name that.
Never mind I miss read the score.
is it just D#dim? You name that a D# dim triad with a passing C# minor chord.
Richard
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OK. Finally I have a guess.
57. beat one Amaj7, D#dim
beat 2 G#7, C#m Well done, Carol.
Richard
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OK. That's where the major comes in!!!
OK the second half of 57 beat one has a D#dim triad with an added C#. How do I name that.
Never mind I miss read the score.
is it just D#dim? You name that a D# dim triad with a passing C# minor chord. Richard, huh? I thought Carol meant a single C#, not a whole extra chord. Are you thinking about something in the score, or speaking hypothetically? What is your definition of passing chord? Carol, I agree with your four chords for m. 57.
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Not quite. Check the key signature and the thirds of each of these chords. doh, i cant remember for the six seconds it took me to go over to the computer that the natural wasn't on the D. - Headslap.
Liebestraum 3, Liszt Standchen-Schubert/Liszt arr Sonata Pathetique-Adagio LVB Estonia L190 #7284 ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/medal_c_5.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/5medals.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/full/5781.gif)
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OK. That's where the major comes in!!!
OK the second half of 57 beat one has a D#dim triad with an added C#. How do I name that.
Never mind I miss read the score.
is it just D#dim? You name that a D# dim triad with a passing C# minor chord. Richard, huh? I thought Carol meant a single C#, not a whole extra chord. Are you thinking about something in the score, or speaking hypothetically? What is your definition of passing chord? Carol, I agree with your four chords for m. 57. My definition is the last triplet group in m. 57 being C#, E, G# being off the beat. That's a passing chord.
Richard
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Woo Hoo!!! I made it through that one with a lot of help. Thanks again everyone.
I'm going to be away from my computer for a bit. I'll be back later.
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(in reply to Richard about passing chords.)
OK, so it seems to me that a passing chord is not the same insignificance as a passing note. A passing note (along with a few other characteristics) is a note that is not part of the harmony. But I think there are several examples of passing chords in this piece which are important parts of the harmonic progression. AIUI you implied early on in this thread that the passing chords didn't have to be written down. But if you leave them out here, you miss the giant circle of fifths progression which is happening, and you miss being able to point out how the harmonic rhythm speeds up here for a measure.
Last edited by PianoStudent88; 08/19/12 03:11 PM.
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I posted this one earlier, but this thread is so busy. I was following along with Carols coaching and was getting more frustrated by the moment ... I'm going to have a go at 57 too ...
Beat1; F#m/C#, A6b5/D#
Beat2; G#7/B#, C#m Originally Posted By: HeirborneGroupie
OK. Finally I have a guess.
57. beat one Amaj7, D#dim
beat 2 G#7, C#m
Well done, Carol. OK I see this now. Great job Carol. Another error in my memory score. I had both triplets incorrect in the 1st beat, and I still can't read yet  
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58. F#min6 (expect a bunch of discussion here)
59. C#min G#min7
have to go our for a while, but back this evening.
Liebestraum 3, Liszt Standchen-Schubert/Liszt arr Sonata Pathetique-Adagio LVB Estonia L190 #7284
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(in reply to Richard about passing chords.)
OK, so it seems to me that a passing chord is not the same insignificance as a passing note. A passing note (along with a few other characteristics) is a note that is not part of the harmony. But I think there are several examples of passing chords in this piece which are important parts of the harmonic progression. AIUI you implied early on in this thread that the passing chords didn't have to be written down. But if you leave them out here, you miss the giant circle of fifths progression which is happening, and you miss being able to point out how the harmonic rhythm speeds up here for a measure. Then let's write them down here and examine this rather wonderful sequence down to the subdominant in isolation.
Richard
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58
Beat 1: A6b5 (WRONG)
Beat 2: C#m9/G#, Ab5/F# (WRONG)
Last edited by Greener; 08/19/12 06:19 PM.
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I'm waiting until we get through m.60 to examine it.
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58
Beat 1: A6b5 (no jeff, f#m6)
Beat 2: C#m9/G#, Ab5/F# (see above)
59. C#m9 / G# (WRONG - Check score you are playing these triplets wrong ... it is C#m/G#; beat two G#)
60. Cm
Last edited by Greener; 08/19/12 06:22 PM.
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58
Beat 1: A6b5
Beat 2: C#m9/G#, Ab5/F#
Bar 58: beat 1 step 1 list the notes: Bass A, ost. F# C# D#, melody F# step 2 remove dups: A F# C# D# step 3 keyboard order: A C# D# F# step 4 Write down variants: 1) A C# D# F#; 2) C# D# F# A; 3) D# F# A C#; 4) F# A C# D# examine possibilites 1) A C# (major third, promising), D# (plus fourth - not so good), F# (plus 6th - very unusual) 2) C# D# (a second is not promising - move on.) 3) D# F# (minor third) A (diminished fifth) C# (seventh) = D# m7b5 4) F# A (minor third) C# (perfect fifth - very promising) D# (and a sixth - bingo) = F#m6 2) D# F# A C# = D# m7b5 or 4) F# A C# D# = F# minor 6 Add bass note etc.
Richard
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59. C#m G#7
60. C#m
61. G#7
Last edited by JimF; 08/19/12 05:31 PM. Reason: because when you rush you do dumbi stuff like forget accidentals
Liebestraum 3, Liszt Standchen-Schubert/Liszt arr Sonata Pathetique-Adagio LVB Estonia L190 #7284
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Liebestraum 3, Liszt Standchen-Schubert/Liszt arr Sonata Pathetique-Adagio LVB Estonia L190 #7284
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Based on your previous answers, JimF, I assume your 59. beat 2 G# MINOR 7 was from overlooking the sharp again!?
Richard
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I think you'll find that chord crops up a lot now, JimF. PianoStudent88 thinks our time might be better spent on closer examination the the sequence from 56 to 58. Sharpen your tools!
Richard
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OK. That's where the major comes in!!!
OK the second half of 57 beat one has a D#dim triad with an added C#. How do I name that.
Never mind I miss read the score.
is it just D#dim? You name that a D# dim triad with a passing C# minor chord. Richard, huh? I thought Carol meant a single C#, not a whole extra chord. Are you thinking about something in the score, or speaking hypothetically? What is your definition of passing chord? Carol, I agree with your four chords for m. 57. I got confused there, PianoStudent88, and looked up at bar 57 beat 2 on the score and saw the C# minor chord. My mistake. I'm feeling a bit bombarded here. 
Richard
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Bar 58: beat 1
step 1 list the notes: Bass A, ost. F# C# D#, melody F#
step 2 remove dups: A F# C# D#
step 3 keyboard order: A C# D# F#
step 4 Write down variants:
1) A C# D# F#; 2) C# D# F# A; 3) D# F# A C#; 4) F# A C# D#
[quote]examine possibilites
1) A C# (major third, promising), D# (plus fourth - not so good), F# (plus 6th - very unusual)
2) C# D# (a second is not promising - move on.)
3) D# F# (minor third) A (diminished fifth) C# (seventh) = D# m7b5
4) F# A (minor third) C# (perfect fifth - very promising) D# (and a sixth - bingo) = F#m6
2) D# F# A C# = D# m7b5 or
4) F# A C# D# = F# minor 6
Add bass note etc.
saw the F#m6, particularly after Jim posted it (he is seldom wrong :), I should have just stuck with him) But, this would thus be F#m6/A, correct? I was trying to use a chord without having to denote /x, not sure why but that is where my thinking was. I also see the F#m6 for the last triad. But the first triad of the second beat ... no Now I will apply this analysis to the other measures (sorry I am so slow with this) and figure out why I keep missing this. PART OF THE PROBLEM IS YOU ARE PLAYING THE WRONG NOTES
Last edited by Greener; 08/19/12 06:30 PM.
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