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In ATTYA, the F#-7b5 B7 is a trick progression because it's a minor ii-V but then it goes to E major. Don't then assume that the entire ii-V-i progression is major. It just switched to major at the tonic (so it changed scales). So you have to treat it for what it is. A minor ii-V. The major ii-V it represents is a minor third away. So you go here from G scale (if we take out alterations) to E scale. That should tell you in itself that a tritone sub will not voice lead back to Emaj7 since that belongs to a different key.

Edit - BTW - this is where most people get messed up in ATTYA.

So is the A pentatonic an OK scale to use over the F# min7 b5 ?

Hi everyone
Apologies if it feels like I'm dominating this thread

On the subject of bridges which are difficult to interpret, I'm doing an arrangement for When I Fall in Love.
I don't understand the harmonic interpretation of the roots Eb maj to Ab maj to G min7 to Fmin 7 ?

I would value your insight.

Hi Cus, as mentioned earlier (and I realize it's all confusing), but the proper mode to use (of the melodic minor) over a half diminished chord is a Diminished Whole Tone Scale (it's a diminished scale to the Tritone and whole tone after that, hence the name).

Some of these is just memorized. There's a reference in Levine. I think that this is particularly important to know since a half diminished chord is pretty common (like Autumn Leaves).

I can tell you that my teacher(s) would expect me to know it instantly.

You're keeping the thread active so how can that be a bad thing?

Thanks JW. I'm only up to learning the melodic minor 1st mode. After this I will start on the diminished scales. Is the diminished whole tone scale the best one to learn straight after the melodic minor 1st mode ?

Jazzwee: Shouldn't the diminished whole tone scale be used over the V chord in a minor II-V? You've indicated that it should be used over the half diminished (II) chord. I use locrian #2 over that part of the progression.

LOL - wrong mode. Well I messed that up. I don't have the modes memorized but I know what it is I play (I did admit to that earlier )

OK so just to clear it up for Cus. It's Half-Dim (MM Mode VI) for Half-Dim chord, then Dim-Whole Tone for the V chord (MM Mode VII) then MinMaj7 for the I chord (MM Mode I). Just learn it for the whole minor ii-V-I.

When you check out the intervals against the underlying chord, it's pretty clear what should happen so that's why I stopped thinking of the scales (meaning I can quickly visualize the scale around the chord).

Didn't mean to be the chord scale police!

Much appreciated jjo.
I can't wait to finish learning the melodic minor scale 1st mode so that I can start learning the diminished whole tone scale.

In the meantime I'm very happy with Knotty's suggestion of C melodic minor or F lydian dominant.

Oscar Peterson master class for ya:

http://youtu.be/ayuWYPQHkMc

I had an interesting experience last night. We invited a soprano sax player to sit in on our gig. This fellow plays quite a bit outside the harmony. I wasn't sure how to comp for that. My ear isn't good enough to pick up what he was doing on the fly and match it. Sometimes I droped out entirely becuase I thought he was better off with just a bass and drums.

In more modern pieces, it was easier. When we played Footprints, for example, quartel comping sounded just right. When we played Time Remembered, I just played a chord at the beginning of most measures and that seemed to work. But when he played odd stuff in a tune like In A Mellow Tone, where I like to have use the comping to bolster the swing feel of the piece, I just wasn't sure where to go.

It was a real challenge and a lot of fun, but I'd need to play with him a couple more times to begin to figure out how to comp more appropriately.

I'm curious too how you would comp for that. Maybe if I had presence of mind, I'd simplify the voicings to quartals. That's how I usually voice my LH when my RH goes out. But I don't know if I'd know how to react if put in your position. So comments from other more skilled would be interesting.

Lately, my challenge has been when the other players get into an unusual groove and I don't know how to phrase my lines to follow. Some tunes are turned to Jazz funk. Or some unusual latin rhythm with a lot of syncopation. The usual swing eighth note feel doesn't work. I'm still feeling my way around how to handle it. I'm beyond my comfort zome of regular swing and bossa.

I think if the horn player is going out the thing to do is to follow. There doesn't seem much point in trying to state a chord sequence if the soloist has left it behind. I like to try to match the tonal ambiguity of the soloist with my comping. Moving quartal chords around is a great way of doing that . It does take a bit of practice to be able to play chords that have nothing much to do with the written tonality and retain the original sound and sequence in mind all the time though. It is a great work out for the ears and the brain.

hey beeboss, got any more idea for triplets? I'm practicing accenting every 4th now, wasnt nearly as good at it as I thought I was..

hi kk
Just try all the possible permutations.
For example, grouping triplets in 3's you can try accenting 1, 2, 3, 1+2, 1+3, 2+3
then try only playing 2 of the triplets and leaving the 3rd silent, same permutations.
Then grouped in 4's, try accenting just 1, 2, 3, 4, then 1+2, 1+3, 2+4 etc etc
Then group in 4 but leave out one note
Then group in 5's. Accent 1,2,3, etc or 1+3, etc
group in 6's, then 7's
ad nauseam ...


and slowly until solid and safe

We had an awesome gig tonight and for a change the recordings were reasonable (new Zoom H4N). This is just an excerpt and only sax solo. But it gives an idea of what our band generally sounds like nowadays. We had to do 2 encores and the last one was Mustang Sally! (first ever for a jazz band?)


Red Clay Aug-17 - (our favorite jamming tune)
https://www.box.com/s/6f875d86b8887286eb31

nice energy!

Thanks Knots. Now it will be hard to generate this energy on my trio gig this week. It will be completely different kind of sound.

not everybody's Oscar Peterson ...