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Not only that, I have read that Mozart played his music on the harpsichord throughout his life, as well as on the piano. I'm assuming that was because a harpsichord may have been the best or only choice of keyboard on which to perform in a given situation. So, FWIW, Mozart himself did at least sometimes play his music completely without pedal, when he played it on the harpsichord.

Not to be avoided entirely (one of Mozart's letters raves about the precision of the sustain/damper mechanism of Stein's pianos), but certainly kept within bounds (half-pedal, etc). The sustain of pianos of the time was slight compared to modern pianos. Even in the pianos of Beethoven's time, it was possible to keep the sustain pedal down through changes of harmony without the blurring of modern pianos (Beethoven took advatage of this in Op. 33 and Op. 53).

But back to Mozart. Period instrument Mozart recordings by Brautigam, Lubimov, and Staier all use the sustain mechanism effectively and tastefully. One should aim to at least suggest that sound world when playing a modern instrument.

BTW, I love the magical timbre of period soft pedals -- impossible to simulate on modern instruments.

I don't recall seeing any professional pianist perform Mozart sans pedal on a modern piano, though some certainly do perform Bach in that manner, at least for some pieces. Anyone?

The first chapter of "Interpreting Mozart" by Badura-Skoda deals with the pedal. I will try to write more later or tomorrow (I am just going out right now...) It is pretty interesting!

yes, and in an edition of chopin preludes that i have the editor notes chopin's sustain pedal markings (very long) and then his own, much more frequent, markings. one must be careful when comparing apples to oranges wrt the capabilities of the instruments of the times.

btw, some years ago i was at an alfred brendel concert at chicago orchestra hall, and he played mozart's fantasia in d minor, and i was quite surprised at the extent of sustain pedal that he used. i would go so far as to say that it's quite impossible to play this piece tastefully on a modern piano without using it.

for example, with sustain:



primarily without sustain:



although the latter may well be more in keeping with the period of the piece, i find it to be too choppy & disjointed (lacking in the necessary flow) for my (modern) ear. others may surely disagree...

Ideally yes, but in my opinion it is more fruitful to go and research the matter yourself, as well as talking to experts.

Often experts have learned from other experts who have learned from other experts but they are far-removed from what actually was performance practice of the day because they haven't dug-up the old books etc.

This applies to any field IMO. If you are serious about your work you need to be responsible and check things for yourself IMO

Thank you for all of the responses to this topic received so far. The consensus seems to be that judicious use of pedaling in Mozart is appropriate. Strongly advocating that no sustain pedal should be used when playing Mozart is an extreme position that most other pianists would not agree with. Indeed, we are hard pressed to come up with a famous pianist known for playing Mozart who adheres to this position.

While it is useful to study performance practices used at the time of Mozart, such information is insufficient for providing definitive guidelines for use of the sustain pedal on modern pianos. Historical accounts indicate that Mozart used mechanisms for producing sustain when he played keyboard instruments of his time with such mechanisms. However, we don't know for sure how Mozart would use the sustain pedal when playing his pieces on modern pianos as no such instruments existed in his lifetime.

I think Gould's eccentric articulation and crazy pauses(like at .42)are at least as respnsible for the strange sound of that performance.

agreed. i quite fancy his brahms, but his mozart...

Disagree. Consult the many recordings by early music specialists on fortepianos. They have done the research and usually offer the most accurate interpretation. The literature would seem to indicate that 1) Mozart's pianos had much less sustain than the modern grand to begin with, so pedaling the modern grand is overkill, and 2) Mozart indicated pedaling where necessary, and 3) according to Beethoven, Mozart's playing was more detache than he would have expected, much like the standard harpsichord practice, thus Mozart was probably not one who liked a lot of sustain.

Listening to Badura-Skoda, who recorded all the Mozart sonatas on both the modern grand and a period piano, is very revealing.

Well, if he does something stupid like pedaling Mozart, maybe you need to find a new specialist.

"i believe mozart played fortepianos with a damper pedal (deployed with the knee), so it should be okay"

A guy in the 30`s I rthink, used a knee pedal on a piano. He was famous for his "Dancing Duck", tethered to the top of the piano, so paople thought. It was tethered to a hotplate on top of the piano; the knee lever determined the amount iof heat, which determined the velocity of the bird`s movements . . . I don`know if Mozart was part of his repertoire. But k331 would give it an easy time. Until Rondo a la turca came up on page 21. . .

Fortepianos of Mozart's time (Walter etc) and grand pianos of the early 19th century (Erard, Pleyel) have less sustain but also less efficient damping, which means notes carry over even when the key is released. I've played on fortepianos c1780 and Erards and Pleyels c1845, and can attest to that.

BTW, I've got CD recordings of Paul Badura-Skoda and Jörg Demus playing Mozart Sonatas for piano duet and K448 for two pianos on Bösendorfer Imperial 290, and someone is definitely pedalling in the slow movements.....

It's usually unnecessary to pedal in the fast movements of Mozart (though most concert pianists do it, even in passagework and especially in concertos), but in the slow movements, the sound can be too dry on modern pianos, with their super-efficient damping mechanism.

No-one yet has pointed out another factor: early pianos did not indeed have the sustaining power of modern pianos, for long held notes for instance and they did indeed have relatively light damping mechanisms, but a) the sound was richer in higher harmonics and/but (another but, this sentence is out of control) b)the treble register was relatively weak. These two factors work against each other to a degree. So there are quite a number of factors which differentiate the sounds that Mozart heard and that we hear on our instruments.

I have played a number of early pianos and a friend makes very good copies of Stein instruments - used by professionals - which I have played quite a bit. This leads to an inevitable conclusion for me: we realise Mozart's music on the modern piano, as we do for Bach etc. We cannot make a modern piano sound like a Stein, Walther etc. If we want to play Mozart truly in the way we believe Mozart wanted, from his instruments, then we need to use his instruments.

Re legato and also the harpsichord. I played the harpsichord for many years. Yes, the sound decays quickly, but is even richer in the higher harmonics. On the harpsichord, early piano and modern piano it is perfectly possible to play legato without any pedalling. In fact, one harpsichord technique, applicable on other keyboard instruments, is overlapping legato. As long as the next note can be reached whilst holding down the previous one there will be no gap at all, and a fullness of sound different from pedalling. Many in this forum will be very familiar with this.

The piano came in to provide dynamics, especially to play softly. If composer/performers had not wanted the ability to sustain via knee lever (tricky to operate btw) or pedal, they would not have developed. (Pedals,for different purposes, had already been introduced to the harpsichord)

I cannot believe Mozart eschewed the use of the pedal. Composers tend to experiment/enjoy novel ways of using instruments.

On the general subject of legato/detache/staccato etc. We generally acknowledge that instrumental music grew up imitating the human voice and early keyboards were played alongside stringed instruments which can sustain and sing wonderfully. Whilst there is a place for short phrases, sharply detached notes etc, my belief is that the default position for music is legato, punctuated by non-legato notes for specific musical effects. IMHO

So, if we realise Mozart on the modern piano, we come back, as has already been said, to our ears and musical sensibilities. On pedalling, articulation, dynamics, speed etc etc. Are we not supposed to be creative musicians, discerning, from a particular instrument, how to create a sound world which we believe respects the composer's intentions, as far as we ascertain them, and which satisfies us musically?

Mozart in one of his letters wanted his music to 'flow like oil'. That doesn't sound like non-legato, or détaché, let alone staccato. Though of course his phrase might have become lost in translation.... (with a doff to Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray).

This is news to me.

WR: it's so long since I was taught these sorts of things I looked up some sources:

"As Hans-Jakob Billinger states in the booklet the cornett was one of the most beloved instruments of the late 16th and early 17th century. Players of the instrument were in high esteem. In the prima prattica the cornett was often used in sacred music, to play either colla parte with one of the voices or to replace it. One of the reasons it was so much valued was its ability to imitate the human voice. When the seconda prattica arrived, and instrumental music started to develop into a genre of its own, the human voice was still seen as the top of the musical pyramid, and the cornett was still highly valued for the same reason as in the time of the prima prattica."
http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/SwissPan_SP51-721.html

'“They [the German composers of instrumental music in the 17th century] thought more highly of difficult pieces than of easy ones, and sought to excite admiration rather than to please. They were more intent upon recreating the songs of birds, for example, those of the cuckoo, the nightingale, the hen, the quail, etc., than upon imitating the human voice.”

Johann Joachim QUANTZ
Versuch einer Anweisung die Flöte traversiere zu spielen (Berlin 1752) (On Playing the Flute, trans. by Edward Reilly)



This rather negative opinion voiced by Quantz at the threshold of the Classical era underlines two fundamental aspects of 17th-century musical aesthetics: the effect as a means of stunning and “touching” the listener, and the partial neglect of the ideal that had been cultivated since the Renaissance, the ideal of the human voice as that which is most worthy of imitation in instrumental music.'

http://www.ilgiardinoarmonico.com/biber-battalia-locke-the-tempest/

Are 2 citations enough?

I would base my opinion on what the greatest pianists did during the last 75 years or so. I think the huge majority used at least some pedal in Mozart.

Brilliance of technique should not be equated with knowledge of a musical style. Those you idolize played Mozart brilliantly, but incorrectly.

I just love reading pronouncements from silent profiles.