Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Tuning a Piano
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
120 registered members (Asayake, ajames, 36251, accordeur, barbaram, 31 invisible), 1,837 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1939879 - 08/09/12 01:57 PM Single String vs Loop String assembly  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
bajabill Offline
Full Member
bajabill  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
mid USA
What are the pros and cons of these build features? I would think the single string is a better design, but what does the hundreds of years of piano service say. I assume since both are still in use, both are acceptable, and both can be done poorly.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1939898 - 08/09/12 02:50 PM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 821
MU51C JP Online content
500 Post Club Member
MU51C JP  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 821
England
Single strings are a great deal more work to fit but they do look nice. A drawback to strings with individual "eyes" is a longer time to settle tuning wise unless greater attention is paid during fitting and subsequent bedding in.

Loops on the other hand are just as good, quicker to fit and take less effort to bed-in through not having to ensure tight coils at the hitch-pin ends.

So .... as far as performance is concerned .... there is no difference once the steel has been bedded in and the initial stretching period has passed on either method.

Your assumption that both methods can be done poorly is quite correct - unless done properly either method will suffer from tuning stability problems wink


Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 52 years in the United Kingdom
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com
#1939900 - 08/09/12 02:51 PM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,691
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,691
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Dear Baja,

The single stringing technique was used originally because the more delicate strings in the early days of piano were morelikely to snap under ther fingers of pianists - like Liszt. If one "single strung string" snapped a recital could still go on.

Also, it has been said that a "looped" string that was being used for two different notes could be somewhat unbalanced in tension and the tone and/or tuning could be somewhat less stable. This is not something that I personally feel is at all significant.

Both styles of stringing are acceptable and looped stringing is so much easier to do well and neatly.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#1939971 - 08/09/12 05:16 PM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
bajabill Offline
Full Member
bajabill  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
mid USA
My initial concern with the loop design was the different tension loads on either side of the pin.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1939975 - 08/09/12 05:25 PM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pianolance  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,261
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted by bajabill
My initial concern with the loop design was the different tension loads on either side of the pin.


I've always wondered that myself, however, more than a century of modern piano manufacturing would seem to indicate that it really isn't much of a problem.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
#1940047 - 08/09/12 08:16 PM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada

The German loop often used in single loop stringing can be significantly weaker and prone to breakage if not installed correctly.

I find a piano with single loop stringing to have more stability season to season.

I expect that the pin being referred to is the hitch pin? I don’t believe there is load on one side of the pin. The way in which the loop is manufactured and how it tightens against itself causes load on both sides.

Here is a photo set of loop stringing. Photo number 12 of this photo set shows a loop made improperly on purpose. When made and installed properly, as the string is tightened, the right side tries to straighten up against the resistance of the loop on the left side creating equal load on the pin.
On the right side of each photo there is text to be read by left clicking on the word “more”

Happy viewing…

Blüthner Aliquot Tour


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#1940053 - 08/09/12 08:35 PM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 149
ventil Offline
Full Member
ventil  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 149
TX
Thanks, Dan. Very informative.


David M. Boothe, CAS
#1940130 - 08/10/12 12:53 AM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted by Silverwood Pianos

The German loop often used in single loop stringing can be significantly weaker and prone to breakage if not installed correctly.


YES!!!! But I don't even think it's necessarily a quality issue.

I tune the pianos for a dueling piano bar here in San Diego. Until recently, their pianos were a pair of Kohler & Campbell baby grands with German-looped strings. They broke an average of four per week, so i got really good at making German loops.

Every time you kink a piece of piano wire, it becomes weaker. German looped strings have more kinks than loop strings, so that's why I think they break more frequently.

BTW, the new pianos are Brodmann CE 175's and while we're having problems breaking bass strings, we have yet to break a plain wire string, and they're looped.

Last edited by OperaTenor; 08/10/12 12:54 AM.

Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#1940133 - 08/10/12 01:00 AM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,333
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,333
Oakland
However, there is rarely a lot of strain at the loops. Strings just do not break there. Most pianos will break strings at the capo bar or agraffe if they break from overuse, or at the tuning pin from rust.


Semipro Tech
#1940155 - 08/10/12 03:37 AM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Performance is about the same. Looped strings are much easier to work with, and in terms of factory production, they're cheaper.

#1940185 - 08/10/12 06:26 AM Re: Single String vs Loop String assembly [Re: bajabill]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member
BoseEric  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
Fairfield County, CT
Whereas individually tied strings tend to indicate higher quality, some high end makers, Steingraeber for example, do not use them.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Trouble with rhythm
by sara elizabeth. 09/26/17 07:53 AM
Observations on my new Roland FP-90
by TripleSharp. 09/26/17 07:09 AM
Which movement contains the snake? - BWV 826 Partita in Cm
by pinkfloydhomer. 09/26/17 06:22 AM
Between Steinberg UR242 and Roland Quad Capture
by stamkorg. 09/26/17 04:15 AM
Perzina and weber pianos
by dat77. 09/26/17 02:53 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,028
Posts2,660,229
Members88,893
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0