2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
31 members (crab89, CraiginNZ, bwv543, Cominut, Colin Miles, Andre Fadel, BWV846, Animisha, 9 invisible), 1,226 guests, and 272 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
What are the pros and cons of these build features? I would think the single string is a better design, but what does the hundreds of years of piano service say. I assume since both are still in use, both are acceptable, and both can be done poorly.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
M
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
Single strings are a great deal more work to fit but they do look nice. A drawback to strings with individual "eyes" is a longer time to settle tuning wise unless greater attention is paid during fitting and subsequent bedding in.

Loops on the other hand are just as good, quicker to fit and take less effort to bed-in through not having to ensure tight coils at the hitch-pin ends.

So .... as far as performance is concerned .... there is no difference once the steel has been bedded in and the initial stretching period has passed on either method.

Your assumption that both methods can be done poorly is quite correct - unless done properly either method will suffer from tuning stability problems wink


Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 52 years in the United Kingdom
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,236
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,236
Dear Baja,

The single stringing technique was used originally because the more delicate strings in the early days of piano were morelikely to snap under ther fingers of pianists - like Liszt. If one "single strung string" snapped a recital could still go on.

Also, it has been said that a "looped" string that was being used for two different notes could be somewhat unbalanced in tension and the tone and/or tuning could be somewhat less stable. This is not something that I personally feel is at all significant.

Both styles of stringing are acceptable and looped stringing is so much easier to do well and neatly.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Company
Visit one of our four locations
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Learn more about the Matchless Cunningham
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 86
My initial concern with the loop design was the different tension loads on either side of the pin.

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,412
P
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,412
Originally Posted by bajabill
My initial concern with the loop design was the different tension loads on either side of the pin.


I've always wondered that myself, however, more than a century of modern piano manufacturing would seem to indicate that it really isn't much of a problem.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263

The German loop often used in single loop stringing can be significantly weaker and prone to breakage if not installed correctly.

I find a piano with single loop stringing to have more stability season to season.

I expect that the pin being referred to is the hitch pin? I don’t believe there is load on one side of the pin. The way in which the loop is manufactured and how it tightens against itself causes load on both sides.

Here is a photo set of loop stringing. Photo number 12 of this photo set shows a loop made improperly on purpose. When made and installed properly, as the string is tightened, the right side tries to straighten up against the resistance of the loop on the left side creating equal load on the pin.
On the right side of each photo there is text to be read by left clicking on the word “more”

Happy viewing…

Blüthner Aliquot Tour

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 171
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 171
Thanks, Dan. Very informative.


David M. Boothe, CAS
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
O
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by Silverwood Pianos

The German loop often used in single loop stringing can be significantly weaker and prone to breakage if not installed correctly.


YES!!!! But I don't even think it's necessarily a quality issue.

I tune the pianos for a dueling piano bar here in San Diego. Until recently, their pianos were a pair of Kohler & Campbell baby grands with German-looped strings. They broke an average of four per week, so i got really good at making German loops.

Every time you kink a piece of piano wire, it becomes weaker. German looped strings have more kinks than loop strings, so that's why I think they break more frequently.

BTW, the new pianos are Brodmann CE 175's and while we're having problems breaking bass strings, we have yet to break a plain wire string, and they're looped.

Last edited by OperaTenor; 08/10/12 12:54 AM.

Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
However, there is rarely a lot of strain at the loops. Strings just do not break there. Most pianos will break strings at the capo bar or agraffe if they break from overuse, or at the tuning pin from rust.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
B
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Performance is about the same. Looped strings are much easier to work with, and in terms of factory production, they're cheaper.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
Whereas individually tied strings tend to indicate higher quality, some high end makers, Steingraeber for example, do not use them.


Moderated by  Gombessa, Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Pianodisc PDS-128+ calibration
by Dalem01 - 04/15/24 04:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,384
Posts3,349,178
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.