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Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
#1938134 08/06/12 11:28 AM
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I saw a beautiful Baldwin Baby Grand Piano last week. The owner said that he bought this piano on 1999 and piano's serial number is: M35xxxx. He asked the price: $9500.

My daughter likes this piano. The piano looks good and it has a rich sound. But I have the following questions about this piano:

1. I couldn't find out the serial number in the piano. If it in the piano, where should the number located?

2. This piano is model M2. I only can find out M1 from blue book. Anyone knows what is different between M1 & M2?

3. I was told that piano made in U.S. I can see "Made in U.S" label in piano, but does this mean it's real Baldwin piano?

Thanks for any advice!

Last edited by May Stone; 08/09/12 04:16 PM.
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Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938232 08/06/12 02:39 PM
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The serial number should be on the plate somewhere. There's a baldwin M for sale near me at the link below and one of the photos shows a serial number. I don't know anything about an M2 - but the M's in general are 5'2" pianos.

$9500 for a 13 year-old 5'2" piano sounds awfully high to me. I've seen 5'10 Kawais advertised of similar vintage advertised for that price. I'd expect that piano to go for more like $5500. Look up Baldwin M pianos on ebay and you'll see what I mean.

You don't say how old your daughter is or how well she plays but she will outgrow a 5'2 pretty quickly. If you have room I'd recommend looking for something a little bigger - even a 5'8 would sound noticeably fuller than a 5'2.

Baldwin piano company was going through a lot of turmoil around 1999 - They were bought by Gibson who started making "Baldwin" pianos in Asia about that time and the early Asian Baldwins do not have a good reputation. However a '99 should predate that.

Nevertheless - have a technician check it out. The fact that case looks nice doesn't mean anything about the mechanics of the computer. Pianos that small are often bought but not played much which can be a double-edged sword.


Baldwin M for sale:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/msg/3106900631.html

Baldwin M pianos on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALDWIN-BAB..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2320b9aad4


Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938253 08/06/12 03:17 PM
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jawhitti, thank you very much! We don't have enough space to put a bigger piano, size 5'8" should be max. My daughter is 10. She is pretty good in playing piano.

Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938351 08/06/12 05:21 PM
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There are usually two places for a serial # on a Baldwin grand. The most common is on the left center side of the plate under the music rack, where the letter (denoting the piano size) and the serial # is just below it. The other place to look is behind the leg, on the treble side, where it attaches to the body of the piano. A few have a metal plate with the serial # there. If you post pictures of the plate, strings, and hitch pins, we can tell if it's an artist Baldwin, or not. You are right to double check, as DH Baldwins and Baldwin Classic are often mistaken for Artist grand models.




Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938644 08/07/12 07:12 AM
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An Artist series Baldwin from the '90s may very well be a great little piano. Frankly, I preferred them to the Steinway S hands down.

What you have heard is true - bigger is better in pianos, but this model of 5'2" is a lot of piano. Baldwin was having some quality control issues by the late '90s, so do not jump without having the piano examined.

Confirm the serial #, have it checked out by an independent tech., and provided the condition is very good, $9500.00 does not sound out of line to me.


Rich Galassini
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Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938667 08/07/12 08:17 AM
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i agree with Rich. The Artist Grands have a remarkable action, no matter their length. I paid much more for a 30 year piano years ago. Do confirm the serial number.. you can call Baldwin. There is something about the name M2 - that makes me a bit nervous.. like it is a Hamilton or something. YOu DEFINITELY want the artist grand. They are very professional. I owned an M for a while. it was great.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
apple* #1938698 08/07/12 09:52 AM
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I checked with a piano seller and Baldwin company yesterday. The seller told me that model "M2" is another version of model "M1". It's made in U.S. The different between M2 and M1 are one part of wood. I was told that Baldwin company (now is Gibson) doesn't have piano info before 2001 in their database. They have no ideas about different between M2 and M1.

I'll bring my daughter to try one more time and see if I'm allowed to take some pictures.

Thanks a lot everyone! All your messages are really helpful.

By the way, if there is an option between Baldwin baby grand M2 (1998/1999) and Yamaha baby grand G2 (1994). Both are same price $9500. Which one is better (I assume both are in excellent conditions)?

Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938825 08/07/12 02:41 PM
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I don't think there is any clear quality distinction here as long as both are in similar condition. Baldwins of that time are usually viewed with more suspicion but really it comes do to which one feels better to the player. Play 'em both (or let your daughter play 'em both) and one or the other will feel better or sound better (or both). Get the one that feels better as it is much easier to make it "sound better" (through voicing) than it is to make the action "feel better". Don't be afraid to abuse the dealer a little by insisting he fix any "issues" before you commit.

I still think the prices are very high for these pianos. In the 5'2 range you can just about get something brand new (like, say, a Samick SG-155) for that price.

(Sidebar - it kills me how I can go to a showroom and play a $50,000 piano that sounds like crap only to be told "oh it needs regulation" or "it needs tuning". I've never driven a Lexus and been told by the dealer that "yeah one of the cylinders is misfiring and the A/C is dodgy but we'll fix that right up after you buy it").

Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938916 08/07/12 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by May Stone
By the way, if there is an option between Baldwin baby grand M2 (1998/1999) and Yamaha baby grand G2 (1994). Both are same price $9500. Which one is better (I assume both are in excellent conditions)?


No Yamaha's have a Renner action that a Baldwin Artist Grand has. I think the price quoted is full retail, but without the retail perks, like regulation and tuning after the delivery and an in-house warranty. Use those facts to get a price on a more level ground with the seller, but by all means, between the two choose the Baldwin.

While I am without a doubt a Baldwin Artist Grand proponent, I think you should research which other pianos chose Renner for their actions. With that being said, if the Baldwin in question is not an Artist Grand, IMHO choose the Yamaha. Your inspector can tell you if it has the ultra desirable Renner action.



Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938930 08/07/12 07:01 PM
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Only the Baldwin SF-10 and SD-10 have Renner actions. The other Baldwin artist grands use the standard Baldwin(Clemson)Action.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
curry #1938949 08/07/12 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by curry
Only the Baldwin SF-10 and SD-10 have Renner actions. The other Baldwin artist grands use the standard Baldwin(Clemson)Action.


I didn't know, so I would favor the Yamaha in her case for resale value.

PS, that is with the same retail deductions I previously mentioned.

Last edited by Guapo Gabacho; 08/07/12 07:57 PM.
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938970 08/07/12 08:21 PM
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I'd favor the Baldwin.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938985 08/07/12 08:55 PM
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Hey Curry - Where ya been?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1938988 08/07/12 09:05 PM
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Hey Marty. Just keeping busy. Wine , women, and song you know?
I still favor the Baldwin. The M as Rich said is a lot of piano for the money.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
curry #1938995 08/07/12 09:11 PM
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I agree with both you and Rich.

I go for Wine, Women, and Piano Serenade. I sing like a frog! No woman would want me singing under a balcony window and I'm not sure any woman would be worth hauling either piano to the hacienda.

laugh


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1939253 08/08/12 10:07 AM
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Thanks everyone! All your messages are very helpful. I will see this Baldwin Baby Grand Piano again this week. For my understanding now, there are D.H Baldwin, Baldwin Hamilton, Baldwin Classic and Baldwin Artist pianos on the market. I definitely want to buy a Baldwin Artist piano, how can I separate Baldwin classic and Baldwin artist? I have very less knowledge about pianos.

Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1939515 08/08/12 06:52 PM
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Artist grands are models M (5'-2), R (5'-8), L (6'-3), SF (7'), and SD (9') with or without various numbers appended depending on age. Anything else is a lesser instrument.


Dennis
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Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1939590 08/08/12 09:56 PM
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We went to Baldwin piano seller's home again. The piano looks like a real Baldwin piano. After my daughter played couple of pieces, she mentioned some issues about this piano:

1. She thought this piano's voice too loud. The middle part voice is hard to change from loud to soft.

2. The piano's sound is not very smooth (last time was better).

My question is: can these problem be solved after tuning? I checked a technician who tuned this piano couple of month ago. I was told the quality of this piano very good.

Thanks for any advice!

Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1939627 08/08/12 11:37 PM
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As a former Baldwin dealer and piano technician, I am quite familiar with this piano. It was arguably the best short grand you could get when it was made and still today compares well with anything.

These American-made Baldwins were in another league beyond the imports and should not be compared in pricing to Kawai or Yamaha. The only comparable is the Steinway "S". You can check out those prices on the internet, as well.


Keith Akins, RPT
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USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Question about Baldwin Baby Grand Piano Model M
May Stone #1939629 08/08/12 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by May Stone
We went to Baldwin piano seller's home again. The piano looks like a real Baldwin piano. After my daughter played couple of pieces, she mentioned some issues about this piano:

1. She thought this piano's voice too loud. The middle part voice is hard to change from loud to soft.

2. The piano's sound is not very smooth (last time was better).

My question is: can these problem be solved after tuning? I checked a technician who tuned this piano couple of month ago. I was told the quality of this piano very good.

Thanks for any advice!


You describe routine service items that can be corrected by any competent technician. You could read the discussions of "Regulating" and "Voicing" on the Piano Technicians Guild website at www.ptg.org. You can also use their "Find A Technician" widget on their homepage.

At this point, you should be engaging a technician to examine the instrument rather than asking people on the internet.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
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