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This topic has become an argument about diction, the choice of words, rather than a discussion of the physics of piano sound.

If some pianos have this effect then there may be implications for the sonority of the piano when using the sustain pedal. I would imagine increased cacophony if many adjacent un-dampened notes are more easily excited at their fundamental.

This topic has become an argument about diction, the choice of words, rather than a discussion of the physics of piano sound.

1 / 1 ; the window can also vibrate because bass frequencies carry more in solids than in air. indeed in both cases it is resonance. I suggest that the whole panel of the window is large enough to react to some low frequencies. [...]

Stravinsky's Serenade en La uses silently depressed notes to hold certain sounds, as do a number of pieces by other composers. The most notable piece is Ives' Concord Sonata, which calls for a block of wood to hold a cluster of notes. Even Paganini from Carnival by Schumann plays a bunch of loud chords with the pedal, and then plays another chord almost silently, which is held while the pedal is let up. The latter chord is heard without attack.

[...] Hey, I know, I might as well use my iPAD for a cutting board! [...]

[...] Does that mean the piano should be played that way then? Just because someone wrote something for it or, thought of it? Or, thinks it sounds good?? [...]

There is a sonata for a 5 + 7 tuned piano in one of Owen Jorgensen's book. The piano is tuned with the 5 black keys equal tempered and the 7 white keys equal tempered, as opposed to the 12 chromatic keys being equal tempered. Then there is Harry Partch's music, using a 69 note per octave just intonation, not for piano, but he did tune some harmoniums that way. There are also a number of pieces for quarter tones, sometimes with pianos especially made, sometimes with two pianos.

All of these are probably less successful than the various ways of using resonances within a piano. After all, that has always been available, and the most important pedal on the piano, the damper pedal, relies on them.

Emmery,

My credentials in the field are not relative to the general discussions at Piano World. I clearly state my name and location in my signature line.

If you must know, I hold a Master of Science in Acoustical Engineering from Loyola University. I need not defend my statements to you. Your window analogy is flawed for the reasons I have noted. My credentials are not derived by means of Google.

This is a discussion group. My curriculum vitae is not prerequsite to my participation in this forum. My musical credentials also are not necessary for participation in these forums. Those credentials are the intellectual and practical basis for my skill as a performing pianist and do not require posting on a billboard.

When you venture into analogy based on flawed scientific deduction, your misconception should be presented to the forum. I did just that.

First of all Marty, this discussion was originally dealing with peoples thoughts, analogies and theories on a decent subject. You claim I made an analogy with the window pane that was incorrect. I responded that the analogy is not mine, found in countless text books, articles, citations, Wiki ect...

Instead of making a valid explanation of your view, or actually looking to see why exactly this analogy is used by countless experts, you abondon everything by suddenly claiming your expertise puts you beyond all that. You brought in credentials, I didn't.

Like I said, if a truck engine vibrates at a specific rpm, and a window on a nearby home rattles because of it, but then stops when the rpm changes, that is sympathetic resonance. Called an acoustical engineer in Guelph, he also confirms the analogy is correct. He also confirmed that an mechanical vibration that isn't sympathetic (as you claim) will rattle that window through a wide range of frequency. Marty, you are missing this important difference. Non sympathetic vibration will work in a wide frequency range...the analogy mentioned states the opposite.

Your own "expertise" however appears self proclaimed, and not important enough to even put in your signature.

If the truck changes gears, the window will still rattle. I does not negate the mechanical vibration being transmitted to the window frame. The intensity of the rattle may change or even stop. It has nothing to do with sympathetic vibration. There may, in fact, be minor resonance between the glass and the truck, but it is mechanical vibration, not sympathetic vibration, causing the glass to rattle.

Which means that what Jerry said is true only 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the time.

I am missing nothing. If you really called one of my colleagues (unnamed), you obviously did not quote your own analogy exactly as written. Your analogy is incorrect and I have pointed out exactly why. You are now tempering it in an attempt to prove it true. Many of the things you have stated, are defending a premiss which is not the original.

I was the one who brought up credentials?


If the truck changes gears, the window will still rattle. I does not negate the mechanical vibration being transmitted to the window frame. The intensity of the rattle may change or even stop. It has nothing to do with sympathetic vibration. There may, in fact, be minor resonance between the glass and the truck, but it is mechanical vibration, not sympathetic vibration, causing the glass to rattle.

You are wrong. You need not attempt to teach what I have already learned through formal education.

Please send me the bibliography of your sources to substantiate your claim.