Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
87 registered members (AngusOg, ando, Azpatrick, Alexank, anotherscott, alfredo capurso, 23 invisible), 1,536 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
#1938873 - 08/07/12 05:08 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scepticalforumguy  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted by ando
Amazing that they think that would go unnoticed when non-Japanese techs with Aussie accents named Bruce show up at their door.

...hey wait a minute...now that I think of it the one that came to my house seemed to know too much about Fosters Lager and something about putting something on the 'barbie.' I now recognize that the accent he had was more southern than eastern too. Boy am I a fool.

But seriously, I don't think I'd be too impressed with having a local tech come instead of one of the 20 or so artisans. I wonder how educated the sales staff are the you and the other gentleman talked to. Maybe they are also looking at the NA website thinking that the information therein applies to all the Common Wealth countries too.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1938934 - 08/07/12 07:10 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.

#1938937 - 08/07/12 07:14 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: scepticalforumguy]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy


But seriously, I don't think I'd be too impressed with having a local tech come instead of one of the 20 or so artisans. I wonder how educated the sales staff are the you and the other gentleman talked to. Maybe they are also looking at the NA website thinking that the information therein applies to all the Common Wealth countries too.


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.

#1938957 - 08/07/12 08:01 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 44
Tribbs Offline
Full Member
Tribbs  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 44
Midwest
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1938958 - 08/07/12 08:03 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,349
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,349
Atlanta, GA
Currently and in a nutshell, the argument surrounds the idea that only 20 or so people in the whole world are qualified to make their pianos play nicely? And all of those people live in Japan. And even when they loan them out, they only lease them to N.America. That ... kinda sucks. frown

Now I do not believe that to be true, but if that remains the argument here, you are really going to scare everybody from buying a Shigeru. An MPA visit is fabulous. The tuning is only $125 but the round-trip plane ticket from Japan is about $4,000. grin smirk


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
#1938977 - 08/07/12 08:39 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Tribbs
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.


I've never noticed you before, but a quick scan of your posts reveals you as a Shigeru owner (apologist). That explains your defensive attitude... Shigerus are ok, lying Kawai dealers, not so good.

#1938978 - 08/07/12 08:41 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: PianoWorksATL]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scepticalforumguy  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
Currently and in a nutshell, the argument surrounds the idea that only 20 or so people in the whole world are qualified to make their pianos play nicely? And all of those people live in Japan. And even when they loan them out, they only lease them to N.America. That ... kinda sucks. frown


Ya, I'd say you've gotten this pretty wrong, Sam. The pianos can be serviced by anybody, just as any piano can. However, as you well know, someone that has actually built the piano might have that much more knowledge about voicing, regulating and tuning than another tech that needs to be a jack of all trades in order to make a living. Wouldn't it be nice if they had MPAs for all the performance pianos? Unfortunately they don't and often consumers get a really skewed vision of what a certain brand may sound like, say Estonia, because the prep work from a particular dealer is less than stellar.
Finding a piano that is performing at its peak is hard enough, made even harder when most pianos in most showrooms are barely in tune let alone set up and regulated correctly.
So, unless you've actually heard the difference between a piano that has been tuned and regulated by someone that has intimate knowledge with that particular brand, and a piano that has been set up and tuned by a local tech, then I'd say despite your position as a piano dealer you may be as in the dark as anyone else about the subject.

As for not having MPAs for areas other than North America, yes, that does suck, and if I were purchasing a piano again, I may not have been as convinced to buy a Shigeru over other brands. It appears that Alan (Grotrian guy) found the Shigerus in less than optimal condition, as well as perhaps having a bad ending with that dealer. Either way, it says nothing about the North American market, and how successful the pianos are doing here.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1938983 - 08/07/12 08:53 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1939002 - 08/07/12 09:16 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,349
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,349
Atlanta, GA
I was just pointing out what someone walking into the room would see and hear, and how far it had gone from someone saying "I did like this, I didn't like that, I don't know why and therefore I'm not good at explaining why."

I've elsewhere praised the emphasis Kawai puts on supporting their SK's. It is a separate and huge problem with customers when someone undermines a really good tech because of official endorsements. The other side of that is when tech egos get too big to take direction. Those will be several long stories that I will never write. At different levels, I've made mistakes and participated in these problems.

We sent 2 techs for specific training in Vienna - Bosendorfer certification. Great training, but I think it took years to work out the endorsement. I've known sub-par techs hired as fill-ins but labeled by a dealer as certified Such and Such technicians go out and wreck someones instrument. I've seen official mistakes as well as insightful management willing to cross lines.

I'll say this. Of all the sales where we competed against SK instruments, win or lose, 75% came down to an obvious preference. I think we broke the 25% that were otherwise a tie by being credible and generally pleasant. smile In the sales where we lost, I don't expect the customers to be particularly articulate in why not us. I have those uncomfortable conversations and only once in a while do I really gain insight. It's okay.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
#1939020 - 08/07/12 09:38 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scepticalforumguy  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted by ando


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.


Sydney (Opera house maybe?): http://vimeo.com/39600684
MPA from Japan in Australia.
End of story? I'd contact that dealer again and see what's up.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1939025 - 08/07/12 09:50 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: scepticalforumguy]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted by ando


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.


Sydney (Opera house maybe?): http://vimeo.com/39600684
MPA from Japan in Australia.
End of story? I'd contact that dealer again and see what's up.


I went through all of the videos and they were of the prep work in Japan and didn't show the work done in Sydney.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1939055 - 08/07/12 10:56 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,278
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Entheo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,278
chicago, il
well the optimistic side of me thinks yeah that'd be cool to have a factory rep come out and tweak my new piano but my far more pessimistic side wonders why the heck i would spend that much on a piano that would not only get past factory QA but dealer prep as well to require such an event to have to occur. for a buck twenty five i have the CSO tech service my machine, and he gets the job done without having to travel 6k miles.

i actually think SKs are great pianos, but as in everything in life, we must be able to separate the sizzle from the steak.

#1939065 - 08/07/12 11:17 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scepticalforumguy  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted by ando


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.


Sydney (Opera house maybe?): http://vimeo.com/39600684
MPA from Japan in Australia.
End of story? I'd contact that dealer again and see what's up.



I went through all of the videos and they were of the prep work in Japan and didn't show the work done in Sydney.


You know, you're right. I just saw the Aus website, and the video and assumed it was actually on site. My mistake.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1939128 - 08/08/12 01:05 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 865
Queensland, Australia
[comment deleted]

Last edited by backto_study_piano; 10/03/12 09:53 AM.

Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1939201 - 08/08/12 07:54 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 391
chihuahua Offline
Full Member
chihuahua  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 391
An Oligarchy
I refer to Shigeru Kawai's website:

http://www.shigerukawai.com/features/mpa_visit.html

My friend lives in Singapore and owns a Shigeru Kawai SK3. Until today, there is no MPA visit from Kawai (despite the PROMISE from Kawai Japan Website). There's only the occasional tuning from the local dealer (no voicing/regulation) - which he has to pay for. So, when it comes to aftersales service in Singapore for Shigeru Kawai, it's as bare as it ever gets!

So much for the "One of our elite Master Piano Artisans will be sent from Japan to provide personalized care for your SHIGERU piano in the form of concert-level tuning, regulation and voicing" bullsh*t.


Nepotism: We promote family values here - almost as often as we promote family members.
#1939228 - 08/08/12 09:10 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 827
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member
sandalholme  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 827
Dorset, UK
Re my RX2 and the master piano technician. It was 2 - 3 years back when the piano was about 5 years' old. I had an issue with one or two odd noises, my technician wrote to Kawai supporting my concern. A Japanese mpt had just arrived in the UK. My understanding he was to be resident in the UK. He arrived, spent most of the day regulating and voicing. I am no technician, but he spent a lot of time on the hammers. Result: one much better sounding RX2. For free.

I am quite happy with the way Kawai in the UK supported my purchase.

#1939303 - 08/08/12 11:43 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 325
albynism Offline
Full Member
albynism  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 325
I'm also thinking of replacing my 1995 G2. I live in Sydney and I went to the finalist concert for the recent SIPC. They had a shigeru, Yamaha and Hamburg Steinway on the stage (holy cow, the three pianos combined cost more than the apartment I live in!), and I remember out of the six finalists only one chose to play on the shigeru, but it was a really beautiful instrument. I think I liked the sound better than the Yamaha and Steinway they had on the stage. they recently were selling off the shigerus that were used in the practice room for the competition. It would have been a great buy because the pianos were only used for a week or so but I was too busy with my schedule to attend the auction. Gah!

#1939337 - 08/08/12 12:46 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: chihuahua]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
AJF  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
Toronto
Originally Posted by chihuahua
I refer to Shigeru Kawai's website:

http://www.shigerukawai.com/features/mpa_visit.html

My friend lives in Singapore and owns a Shigeru Kawai SK3. Until today, there is no MPA visit from Kawai (despite the PROMISE from Kawai Japan Website). There's only the occasional tuning from the local dealer (no voicing/regulation) - which he has to pay for. So, when it comes to aftersales service in Singapore for Shigeru Kawai, it's as bare as it ever gets!

So much for the "One of our elite Master Piano Artisans will be sent from Japan to provide personalized care for your SHIGERU piano in the form of concert-level tuning, regulation and voicing" bullsh*t.

Im pretty sure I've read a number of times on this forum that Shigeru does not offer the MPA visit to every country, Singapore being one of them. Your friend's situation sounds to me like an issue between customer and dealer for not being clear. Either that or someone has made assumptions. I highly doubt that a company with such a reputation at stake as Kawai would be "bullsh$tting people" as you suggest.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1939405 - 08/08/12 03:10 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Surrey, B.C.
From my own experience visiting a good number of factories in Germany and playing all kinds of high end pianos, the prep and set up has always been the single most important factor.

This is the first thing factory staff itself would point out sometimes discouraging to play certain pianos just fresh of the line.

To suggest that one single visit or application by one factory master tech will keep a piano at it's possible peak is not addressing the nature of the beast.

In fact, the higher the level of service work is, the more it demands to be done repeatedly on same piano.

It sure would be nice to compare notes after equal amount of work is done on a number of different pianos, however in the real world this does not seem to happen overly often.

Norbert


Last edited by Norbert; 08/08/12 03:10 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1939417 - 08/08/12 03:36 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Aaron Garner Offline
Full Member
Aaron Garner  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Sacramento, Ca
Maybe I'm way of base here, but I think this whole master technician deal is just a marketing tool and I'm guessing it's built in to the price. I have always used techs who are very well respected with years of experience working and rebuilding high end pianos and I've always gotten what I needed out of my instruments. Non of them were factory trained on a specific brand, but they had incredible ears and knowledge about pianos. Does my M & M not sound as good as it could because I didn't have a special factory technician work on it? I doubt it. Besides, sound and feel are very personal. Btw, just last week I played a Shigeru for the first time and fell in love with it. I wonder if the "master technician" already visited the store? Hmmm!


2013 Mason and Hamlin BB
Full-time music professor (theory) and jazz pianist
#1939446 - 08/08/12 04:21 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Surrey, B.C.
Aaron:

Feeling same here...

However, in many parts of the world, especially the Orient good techs or "master techs" are a hard commodity to come by.

In our neck of the world they are, as you had pointed out, "not"

In our Vancouver B.C. area alone there are a good number of them as are in all cosmopolitan areas of the U.S.

In Germany, they are 'run-of-the-mill' ["Meisters"] and 100% present at the ever-so-important "End-Kontrolle" of every single maker I know.

Building another castle perhaps would have more magic there...

Norbert wink

Last edited by Norbert; 08/08/12 10:17 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1939447 - 08/08/12 04:24 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Aaron Garner]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Hi Aaron,

Sure, it's a marketing tool. But it is a very effective one. Kawai out Steinwayed, Steinway!

BTW - Does you piano melt in your mouth, and not in your hand? [Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#1939479 - 08/08/12 05:27 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Aaron Garner Offline
Full Member
Aaron Garner  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Sacramento, Ca
Points well taken. Speaking of Kawai out doing Steinway, they (a store in the Bay Area) had a Hamburg two pianos over from the Shigeru and although it was really nice, I might have chosen the Shigeru if I had been in the market. The Shigeru had an amazing action and a beautiful tone. I just got my M and H BB a couple of weeks ago, but if I had played this piano, I might have come up with the extra dough with or without a master technician from Japan.




2013 Mason and Hamlin BB
Full-time music professor (theory) and jazz pianist
#1939503 - 08/08/12 06:28 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
AJF  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
Toronto
If nothing less, what was very cool about the MPA visit I got was the fact that an obviously masterful technician who knew my brand of piano so well that he could build one from the ground up came into my home and spent upwards of 6 hours making sure that the instrument was perfect. Not only did he voice and regulate the Instrument, he did it to MY specific needs and preferences. Call it a gimmick if you like but I thought the whole experience was awesome.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1939528 - 08/08/12 07:17 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,642
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,642
Danville, California
Personally I think it is brilliant.

I have read other posts on here from Shigeru owners (e.g. a guy in Houston a couple years ago) that raved about the MPA and his results with their instrument.

Nobody else does it. I give Kawai a lot of credit.

Disclaimer: I love Shigerus. They are fabulous - IMHO

#1939597 - 08/08/12 10:25 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: chihuahua]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 478
Jay Offline
Full Member
Jay  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 478
AUD
Originally Posted by chihuahua
I refer to Shigeru Kawai's website:

http://www.shigerukawai.com/features/mpa_visit.html



I am sure the link you have there for USA and Canada, if you refer to shigeru dealers/contact. It must be a special arrangement made between USA/Canada/Japan only. I dont think I can find anything from Kawai Japan website saying MPA going to visit every Shigeru's owner(s).

Last edited by Jay; 08/08/12 10:27 PM.
#1939604 - 08/08/12 10:41 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 595
Gatsbee13 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Gatsbee13  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 595
Los Angeles
anyone have a video or link to one of a kawai MPA in action?

#1940369 - 08/10/12 02:54 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 44
Tribbs Offline
Full Member
Tribbs  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 44
Midwest
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Tribbs
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.


I've never noticed you before, but a quick scan of your posts reveals you as a Shigeru owner (apologist). That explains your defensive attitude... Shigerus are ok, lying Kawai dealers, not so good.


I explain to you some economic facts and you call me an apologist? LMFAO!!! What are you smoking?

#1940378 - 08/10/12 03:06 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,029
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Tribbs
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Tribbs
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.


I've never noticed you before, but a quick scan of your posts reveals you as a Shigeru owner (apologist). That explains your defensive attitude... Shigerus are ok, lying Kawai dealers, not so good.


I explain to you some economic facts and you call me an apologist? LMFAO!!! What are you smoking?


Apologist, yes. You make excuses for something based on your own bias. I'll pass on your explanation of "economic facts" because I don't need it and it's too simplistic. Can't you make your point without aggressive hyperbole?

#1941983 - 08/13/12 02:01 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 44
Tribbs Offline
Full Member
Tribbs  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 44
Midwest
Let me try to make this very simple for you.

You own a handful of bars around the city.

Q) Where is it prudent to employ your best bartender(s)?

A) At the bar that generates the largest revenue.

Nothing apologetic about that fact.

Will you be having the usual? Have a nice day!

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What are the prices for kawai gx2 and essex 173?
by Piano Audio. 05/28/17 06:03 AM
An invisible music tip - ear.
by ZeroZero. 05/28/17 03:19 AM
I need help...PLEASE
by Flush. 05/27/17 10:22 PM
K. Kawai K48A from 1970 (Made in Japan)
by PianoMomCan. 05/27/17 09:45 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,929
Posts2,630,455
Members87,905
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0