Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
84 registered members (Bambers, anotherscott, ando, 36251, amad23, BachToTheFuture, 18 invisible), 1,944 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
#1930666 - 07/22/12 12:13 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: master88er]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by master88er
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

My point was that at present no Chinese makers are building pianos that have the equivalent goals(building the best piano possible) as the Shigeru or Yamaha CF or S series. At present, they are building inexpensive pianos not even designed to compete with the Tier 1 and Tier 2 pianos the way those Kawai and Yamaha models do.

Actually, that is not true. This article was published in the Sacramento main newspaper last week : KAYSERBURG

Clearly, Pearl River has exactly that in mind and having put these pianos side by side to some of the most revered and prestigious pianos on the planet, I dare say that (IMHO) they are well on their way.

You do understand that this piece was written by the good folks at Pearl River...?

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1930773 - 07/22/12 03:40 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Dara:

Nice post - balsam for the soul!

Only an artist from Salt Spring Island could write such insightful, self-depreciating comments. Make sure you'll be on the market when over, glad to get some of your pictures!

Norbert thumb



www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1930823 - 07/22/12 05:10 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Del]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 342
Emissary52 Offline
Full Member
Emissary52  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 342
Monroe, NC USA
Del - I thought the same thing myself when I read that article. It's that kind of thinly-disguised puff piece ad which passes for journalism these days. But, it probably does speak to future intentions of Pearl River. Most people remember when the Hyundai Excel came out and it was widely criticized as an automotive piece of junk. Now, their top models compete to a pretty high degree with Lexus. Time does change a lot of things! Who knows? ...twenty years from now, your grandkids could be reading Harry Potter Chang and the Half-Priced Chinese Steinway.

Last edited by Emissary52; 07/22/12 06:59 PM.

I'm Craig, I'm retired, It's Saturday every day!
Alfred's Masterwork Classics Vol 3 and Vol 4
YDP-160, GH-170R
Alfred 1 Graduate
#1930839 - 07/22/12 05:54 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 38
K-52SM Offline
Full Member
K-52SM  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 38
Would it be possible for piano manufacturing to competively return to America with investment in new manufacturing technology? Has any serious thought been given to how this might be done? The old names might be gone but could we see new ideas in product development, new excitement, new brand names our own desire to own inovative affordable high quality state of the art American built pianos?

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1930842 - 07/22/12 06:00 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Norbert]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Tweedpipe Offline
Full Member
Tweedpipe  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by Norbert


- How can there be more to food than its taste, freshness including perhaps the way of being cooked?


- Does one rate restaurant food how "famous" the cook is or how long the restaurant has been around or is expected to be in business? Norbert smile


i) Oh là là Norbert! Those comments were almost direct blows to my sensitive taste-buds.... wink
I can only wonder if you have spent much time in the gastronomic corners of France? Any gourmet - worthy of that title - will advise that before one even gets into savouring the taste, freshness or the way a dish is cooked, there are two additional essential rituals. The appreciation of the initial aroma, followed by how pleasing the dish is to the eye, which necessitates slowly turning the platter.
(Truly, the very first time I set eyes on a new Fazioli, I had to walk around it twice to savour it's splendor before sitting down on the bench to 'taste').
Conversely I bet many folks purchased a Lindner piano thinking it looked pretty good, only to find later that it caused chronic indigestion and heartburn!
Being located in a wonderful corner of SW France, I like to think I know and fully appreciate good food. Believe me, many times I have fallen in love with a dish before ever having tasted it.


ii) Oh yes, very much so in France (with the exception of "expected to be in business" I would think).
I believe that the name of famous chefs here and their restaurants certainly play a part on how a certain 'colour' guide book extolls the virtues of the food - not always justified imho. Not unlike some piano reviews in fact.
"Bon appetit!"


Currently working on:-
C Major scale (r/h only - starting with the pinkie finger)......

Dear Noah,
We could have sworn you said the ark wasn't leaving till 5.
Yours sincerely,
The Unicorns



------------------------------

#1930844 - 07/22/12 06:00 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: K-52SM]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,223
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,223
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by K-52SM
Would it be possible for piano manufacturing to competively return to America with investment in new manufacturing technology?


I don't think it's the technology that causes the discrepancy - it's more the cost of labour and cost of production in different countries. More a political thing.

#1930848 - 07/22/12 06:08 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Quote
Would it be possible for piano manufacturing to competively return to America with investment in new manufacturing technology? Has any serious thought been given to how this might be done? The old names might be gone but could we see new ideas in product development, new excitement, new brand names our own desire to own inovative affordable high quality state of the art American built pianos?


This is the only question that is of any meaning, at least to me. I have always thought exact same and the talk about "Chinese" or for that matter "Japanese" pianos should be seen 'relatively' within the same discussion.

This is especially true considering there are some U.S. makers left today that should have been much more supported, such as C.W or smaller operators like Dell Fandrich.

So, ladies and gentlemen: why is this not happening in your/our own country? If I was American, I certainly would look at this very seriously But so went the affairs of the world and the wise guys starting the whole global economy surely never anticipated [or cared..] what would eventually lie ahead.

With us consumers following eagerly being offered what at least initially looked like ever cheaper prices for consumer goods - including pianos.

Only when we really think about all of this can one understand why the question to which extent others out there like the Chinese are advancing at such incredible speed.

We left a huge void and it was "us" who did this.

Since we have long decided to leave major manufacturing to the Japanese, Mexicans, Chinese etc, it's no good to blame others or keep denying that things are just not happening out there.

They are and - at ferocious speed.

So how to convert all of this back to scratch one?

You tell me.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 07/22/12 07:32 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1930859 - 07/22/12 06:25 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bob Newbie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
The chinese do make some beautiful black lacquer decorative cabinets, with centuries old
expertise, so I expect their piano finishes to be beautiful....
now making a beautifully sounding piano is another matter entirely... smile

#1930873 - 07/22/12 06:53 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: ando]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 342
Emissary52 Offline
Full Member
Emissary52  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 342
Monroe, NC USA
ando - I think you're spot on with your comments. Take the example of Apple, for instance, with their iPads. They are built with the latest "bleeding edge" technology by Foxcomm in China. Even if that technology could be exported to the US, the labor costs could not be matched. Sad to say, but if $499 Chinese-made iPads were sold in the same store with identically-spec'd "Made in the USA" models for $1299, those American-made ones would languish on the shelves. While the piano market differs significantly from the electronics trade, many of the same economic principles apply. The median (half make more, half make less) income of the typical US family is now $49,445 as of 2010. It has probably dropped since then. So even if a very efficient American company decided to produce extremely high-quality pianos (at say half the price of a Steinway), they would have a steep market climb to establish themselves in these tough economic times. The median US family generally could not afford one, and would still be looking elsewhere for a lower-priced alternative. Just as a curiosity, I think it would be fascinating to know what the incomes are, of today's piano buyers, in relation to the amount they spend on their pianos. But I think it's safe to say that Walmart employees rarely visit Steinway Hall to purchase their pianos.

Norbert - Just this week, we learned that the average Canadian Family has a higher net worth than their US counterparts. Better man those border crossings with Machine-gun Mounties like Texas and Arizona! grin BTW, thanks for the Kayserburg PM info!

Last edited by Emissary52; 07/22/12 07:04 PM.

I'm Craig, I'm retired, It's Saturday every day!
Alfred's Masterwork Classics Vol 3 and Vol 4
YDP-160, GH-170R
Alfred 1 Graduate
#1930906 - 07/22/12 08:28 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Quote
Better man those border crossings with Machine-gun Mounties like Texas and Arizona!


No, no it's your guys at the border that shine these things in our face when we Cunucks are visiting you..... cry

Even had to give up my 2 apples, lettuce and avocados [ all imported from U.S.]

P.S.the Cascades are wonderful and we much loved our little excursion. Almost ended up playing at the Winthrop Blues Festival on way home...

Norbert thumb


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1930930 - 07/22/12 09:21 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Norbert]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 342
Emissary52 Offline
Full Member
Emissary52  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 342
Monroe, NC USA
Gee Norbert, That sounds so severe! Pilfering your California,Washington state or Mexican fruit & vegetable selections! Here, I thought that the male Canadian border guards and female US border guards would be dueting "Indian Love Call" over and over! Shows I never got further North than upstate NY! grin

Last edited by Emissary52; 07/22/12 09:22 PM.

I'm Craig, I'm retired, It's Saturday every day!
Alfred's Masterwork Classics Vol 3 and Vol 4
YDP-160, GH-170R
Alfred 1 Graduate
#1930939 - 07/22/12 09:58 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Quote
Gee Norbert, That sounds so severe! Pilfering your California,Washington state or Mexican fruit & vegetable selections! Here, I thought that the male Canadian border guards and female US border guards would be dueting "Indian Love Call" over and over! Shows I never got further North than upstate NY!


Fully agreed, if only...

By the way, next morning, after we had consumed the wonderful California lettuce, apples and avocados we tried one more time to cross.

Tata - never forget the feeling no longer being considered an enemy of the state..

Not quite finished with our experience the day before I told the female border guard: "better find what I have hidden in the camper: welcome to keep it if you like..."

After few minutes probing she gave up knowing full well I was only teasing her. But then she wanted to know.

I showed her my toothbrush.

Offer declined.

Norbert laugh


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1930984 - 07/22/12 11:51 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: K-52SM]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,642
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,642
Danville, California
Originally Posted by K-52SM
Would it be possible for piano manufacturing to competively return to America with investment in new manufacturing technology? Has any serious thought been given to how this might be done? The old names might be gone but could we see new ideas in product development, new excitement, new brand names our own desire to own inovative affordable high quality state of the art American built pianos?



Not a chance.

#1930986 - 07/22/12 11:54 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Furtwangler]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by Furtwangler
Originally Posted by K-52SM
Would it be possible for piano manufacturing to competitively return to America with investment in new manufacturing technology? Has any serious thought been given to how this might be done? The old names might be gone but could we see new ideas in product development, new excitement, new brand names our own desire to own innovative affordable high quality state of the art American built pianos?



Not a chance.

And why not? (Of course you have to define that "affordable" part.)

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#1930989 - 07/23/12 12:02 AM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 387
Michael Taylor Offline
Full Member
Michael Taylor  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 387
Discovery Bay, California
Not in this lifetime. Unions, healthcare, corporate taxes, workers compensation laws......we will be lucky to be able to make snowmen in this country.


Piano obsession started November 2010.
Ragtime Butcher
Kayserburg U123
[Linked Image]
#1931238 - 07/23/12 11:38 AM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Kurtmen]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Originally Posted by Kurtmen
I truly believe that Chinese piano manufacturers can build outstanding products. Why not?
Chinese piano makers have the financial resorts to bring the best designs, materials and builders.
The questions are:
Are they interested in building high-quality pianos?

Is there enough consumers’ confidence to pay the price for a high-quality piano made in China?

Is it worth for piano dealers to pay extra for a better Chinese piano?

My answer to all these questions is NO, based on the following reasons.

A) I constantly see advertising in all types of media selling Made in Japan, Made in the USA or Made in Germany or Europe. Never made in China.

B) Even those dealers who doesn't carry Kawai, Yamaha or Steinway somehow they try to advertise these three brands in their websites or promotional activities.

C) A very large number of dealers selling Chinese pianos still selling grey market Japanese pianos and rebuilt Steinways.

D) Must if not all Chinese Piano Makers CANNOT detach from making a connection of their products to Germany or Japan. This is something the Japanese companies don't do.

E) I noticed often dealers using the size of the piano as selling point instead of the quality. It is very typical for dealers to say: "You can buy this 6'1" X brand for 50% less than the equivalent piano made by Kawai or Yamaha.

F) I never see advertising of X brand proudly Made in China.

G) When buyers ask, where is this piano made? Hardly ever a dealer answers China, without previously giving a talk about the German Components or parts from Europe.

H) The Chinese population in North America is a very significant consumer for the piano industry. I hardly see Chinese people asking for pianos made in China (rare).

These are facts of the piano industry. Hard to hear for those selling Chinese brands but hard to say this is not accurate...



Kirtmen,

Although most of these are, as you say, facts of the industry, they are facts of the marketplace, not of construction methods, materials, execution, or the end result. Reputations, both good and bad, have a habit of outlasting reality. It is certainly feasible that in the never-ending search for engineered cost savings and cheap labor, ostensibly 'Japanese' pianos may slip a notch or two in the quality of their reality while the reality of some Chinese brands begins to outdistance their reputations.

I'm not implying that it has happened, but when Kawai begins to offer its European retailers a choice of K3's, one built in Indonesia and one 'built' in Japan, and offer the former at a discount to the latter as a sweetener, one begins to sense that more is in play than preserving a reputation built on national pride.

Nonetheless, I think you capture the business reality of Chinese piano manufacture and manufacture in general.

Is there enough consumers’ confidence to pay the price for a high-quality piano made in China?

Not at this time certainly. The Chinese know that it would be a tough sell both on the home market and the export market to take on the competition without a cost/value play. Reputations change slowly and incrementally. No sense in letting manufacture get too far ahead of that.

Is it worth for piano dealers to pay extra for a better Chinese piano?

Probably not. My guess is that even enthusiastic Chinese piano retailers like Nick and Norb realize that at a certain price point, the higher flooring cost combined with customer resistance to price parity for a Chinese product would make that proposition unattractive.

Personally, I don't think China is particularly concerned if its emerging middle and upper classes crave and buy luxury imports. In a socio-economic macro sense, it's far more important to keep the basic commodities of life flowing through domestic manufacturing channels than it is to discourage the purchase of luxury imports. That approach not only provides the home market with affordable products of slowly increasing quality, but creates far more jobs that the manufacture of so-called 'handmade' high ticket exclusives. China desperately needs those jobs, as the massive transition from an agrarian economy to a manufacturing one still presents a world of problems.

When you as a nation need to worry is when you can't make, sell, or buy shoes, underwear, toaster ovens, or technology that are home-grown because almost all of your former domestic manufacturers have gone into hiding in Chinese factories.

Hmmmm. That sounds vaguely familiar.


BTW, Kurtmen, not that it's any consolation, but your English is a damned sight better than my German. grin





Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#1931277 - 07/23/12 12:50 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: turandot]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,872
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Plowboy  Offline

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,872
SoCal
Originally Posted by turandot

When you as a nation need to worry is when you can't make, sell, or buy shoes, underwear, toaster ovens, or technology that are home-grown because almost all of your former domestic manufacturers have gone into hiding in Chinese factories.


For sure.

As for quality, if foreign companies specify that their Chinese suppliers produce cheap crap, that's what the Chinese will produce. To think that's all the Chinese can do is a mistake, IMHO. As del pointed out "made in Japan" used to be a joke.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
#1931303 - 07/23/12 01:34 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 805
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member
Nick Mauel  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 805
Sarasota and Naples, FL
I suppose I should add something to this thread since I was mentioned in a previous post as "enthusiastic Chinese piano retailer" shocked [Please note, I feel this strictly depends on the company producing the product and using 'China' as a broad label is not helpful]

My experience in supplying the answers below is based on the Brodmann and Hailun pianos.

Regarding some questions that were posted earlier:

1) Are they interested in building high-quality pianos?

2) Is there enough consumers’ confidence to pay the price for a high-quality piano made in China?

3) Is it worth for piano dealers to pay extra for a better Chinese piano?

My answer to all these questions is YES, based on the following reasons:

1) I recently had a meeting with Colin Taylor the co-founder and technical director of Brodmann and asked a lot of technical questions. They are very interested in building a quality product. Of course I have observed the workmanship and materials up to this point which are indicative of higher quality, but just wanted to make sure that those intentions will remain or migrate even further up the scale.

2) Yes, provided that it is shown and explained to them what they are getting. After a thorough examination, the attributes are clearly visible and these reinforce the more easily observed tone and touch which are already superior to most pianos.

3) Piano Dealers are consumers, too. The value proposition accelerates as the price rises, so I will gladly pay more for the high-end. These are the most compelling options.

I can assure you that sophisticated consumers are choosing these pianos. It is not a rare event for me to sell the larger Brodmanns, the 7' and 7'6" which I regularly stock and sell and which do require a fairly significant investment.

Many here may remember this first poster:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb.../Purchasing%20a%20piano.html#Post1840275

Who later concluded this:

Re: Recommended Dealers for following brands! [Re: GCdreamer]
Auntie
Full Member

Registered: February 07, 2012
Posts: 20
Wow!! My first post without seeking advice!! GCDreamer, I am an amateur piano player and don't think I have any bias. I have just been on the journey you are about to take [with a smaller budget], and I live in Florida. The Estonia is carried (frequently....you must call first)in a showroom in Venice and Bonita Springs...both owned by Nick Mauel...nickspianos@gmail.com. I was at the Bonita facility yesterday...I must tell you I think it would be worth a trip for you and, also, a lot of fun. Call and make an appointment. Nick is knowledgeable and plays and is a tech and loves his pianos, tunes them, moves them for you in the showroom so you can hear different sounds. He voiced and tuned one, before I arrived, to my taste...which was unheard of for me. He LISTENS to what you are looking for in a piano. But I am also writing to say that I did what the people on the forum suggested and played a lot of pianos. Yesterday I played a relatively inexpensive [relative being the key word here] Brodmann at Nick's and found the 7 footer to be exquisite. Gorgeous to look at, magnificent to play. [It is now like sugar plums dancing in my head.] And whoever said a great piano can make you think, "I didn't know I could play that well", was right on the money. I even grew with confidence in the showroom as I hit those fabulous bass notes. Anyway, I thot it would be closer to you and a great day trip and you must try the Brodmann. Auntie

(Proud new owner of a Brodmann 212, increased initial budget)



Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist
#1931325 - 07/23/12 02:53 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Nick Mauel]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Originally Posted by Nick Mauel
I suppose I should add something to this thread since I was mentioned in a previous post as "enthusiastic Chinese piano retailer"


Not really necessary at all, particularly as a pretense for simply plugging your brands and sticking in a customer testimonial to boot. Really, have you no shame whatsoever?

All I wrote was that even for a retailer such as you who is enthusiastic about his Chinese brands, there would be a price point at which you would need to think long and hard before absorbing the flooring cost and pitching the pianos to the consumer market which expects to pay less for Chinese product.

It's a simple fact that consumers expect to pay less for pianos made in China than they do for those of equivalent size from Japan, the US, and Europe. That fact of the marketplace may of course change over time, but that is the reality of the present day.

If you want to tell me that you would be happy to stock Chinese grands with size and price equivalency to Yamaha C. Mason and Hamlin, Estonia, or Schimmel Konzert, then go ahead and do so. I like a joke as well as anyone.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#1931339 - 07/23/12 03:34 PM Re: 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos [Re: Pianolance]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 805
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member
Nick Mauel  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 805
Sarasota and Naples, FL
Turandot,

You make too many assumptions and state these as facts, when they are not facts at all.

I stated as a simple premise that dealers are piano consumers too. I can see what I am getting for the price paid and judge accordingly, looking for the best value at each price level. And I don't have to worry about any flooring costs since I pay for everything upfront to have more room to discount.

Originally Posted by turandot

It's a simple fact that consumers expect to pay less for pianos made in China than they do for those of equivalent size from Japan, the US, and Europe. That fact of the marketplace may of course change over time, but that is the reality of the present day.

This is your guess to the question regarding whether or not consumers would invest the same amount in a piano coming out of China. The answer is "Yes they have." Particularly in regard to the larger Brodmanns or Hailuns, customers who were going the spend "x" amount for a particular Japanese piano were able to choose a bigger and far better sounding piano for the same amount. Since the investment level was the same and sometimes more, the confidence in the product also had to be maintained.

What you perceive as a 'plug' is what is necessary to supply proof of your errant remarks or speculations. The testimonial I supplied was completely unsolicited and the customer never appeared on the Forums again to reveal what she had purchased. But it shows that someone with a significant budget would choose the type of piano that is being discussed here for same reasons that many others have as well.


Originally Posted by turandot

If you want to tell me that you would be happy to stock Chinese grands with size and price equivalency to Yamaha C. Mason and Hamlin, Estonia, or Schimmel Konzert, then go ahead and do so. I like a joke as well as anyone.

Of course you are right about this but after we leave the price and value realm of the best pianos from China the next big step up is - Estonia! Here we have far better quality for the Japanese price point. I no longer see value in prices for Japanese pianos, and my vendors are carefully chosen.




Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Messiaen - Vingt Regards
by Eric NYC. 10/22/17 10:59 AM
Pen Pal Thread
by cmb13. 10/22/17 07:26 AM
The difference between PTG and technician association?
by Fazioli-Yang. 10/22/17 12:27 AM
Sostenuto pedal
by Elysia.S. 10/21/17 10:52 PM
Impending issue with ABF Recital software
by Whizbang. 10/21/17 10:12 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,419
Posts2,666,397
Members89,015
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0