Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner How good do you think Chopin's technique was?

Sorry!
I knew that it was mainly Liszt's etudes that were being discussed at that point, but I didn't know that any of his etude sets were called by that name.

btw, ARE THEY? Is that really an alternate name for what's being called here the "TE's"?

Which BTW is another 'name' I wouldn't usually recognize, but I had an easier time with that than with "Douze Grandes Etudes."

To me, the term has always meant just Chopin.

I believe they were the original versions of the Transcendental Etudes, and were published in 1836(?). Liszt later revised them, along with the Paganini Etudes, after realizing they wouldn't be very useful if nobody else could actually play them.

I believe they're S.137 or 138

It's not at all a stupid remark. dolce, may not have expressed his thoughts clearly enough (I'm pretty sure he means Chopin must have possessed the technical tools to play his etudes or he couldn't have written them...I don't agree, but that's not the point), but we know that Chopin played the piano so your remark clearly falls short in that we're not talking about a composer writing for an instrument he cannot play.

Ah. I just remembered. (Came to me first thing this morning.)

Janice Weber.

Known and loved by many of us -- among other things she's been a judge in the Boston and Washington amateur competitions. I've heard her perform also.

And it's on Amazon for 24 bucks. hmmmmm. nahh

While I haven't read every response, I'm frankly surprised at the amount of folks on here thinking that it was "doubtless" that he had such a great technique and could play all his etudes without trouble.

A few points for consideration:

- While a fine and capable pianist, I think it is fairly safe to assume that Chopin was NOT a thunder-storming virtuoso on the level of Liszt, Rachmaninoff, or Paganini.
We know he performed no often than a few times a year.

-Chopin never practiced more than 3 hours a day. His time was spent teaching and composing. I don't know of any pianist who can play all the Chopin Etudes with ease who practiced this little.

- As far as I know, there are no know reviews or reports of Chopin performing brilliantly technically...we know of his beautiful bel canto tone..of his pianissimo..of his improvisations..but not of his stupendous technical feats.

- We know that Chopin famously said he wished he could "steal" the way Liszt played his own etudes, and we have no actual way of knowing what Liszt's technical level was at the time

And as a final side note, I believe it is PERFECTLY realistic that somebody can write something they are unable to play. There is the difference between the UNDERSTANDING of piano technique and the EXECUTION of technique - I'm inclined to believe that Chopin (and Schumann, and Brahms, and Schubert), all had the former but not the latter. There is only time for so much in life - and as somebody said earlier, composers don't practice, at least not enough to attain virtuosity.

Just for the record, I DO believe that he had a few in his fingers, and could play excepts and segments of all of them. But could he play them the same way Liszt, Pollini, Browning, or Ashkenazy could? I highly doubt it.

Nobody's saying he was.
None of us who believe he was an extraordinary pianist of the highest order (which includes me) think he was this thing that you just said.

That doesn't mean he didn't have an A+++ technique, which I think he did. A+++ techniques can take different forms.

One other thing to consider regarding Chopin and his etudes. Don't forget that he wrote them. That means that they were the product of his brain, and, perhaps, his fingers. I think that in hundreds of little ways that are hard to pin down, this makes his music "in sync" with his muscular, neurological, and musical essence.

Dismiss this theory right away if you want , but I thought of this because there are compositions of my own that I would not be able to play as easily if I hadn't written them myself; it's something I've observed my whole life. I think that being a piece's composer makes that piece about 3%-5% easier to play. ("5%" of what? Who knows.) In my own experience that can make a huge difference.

-J

Of course Chopin was a great pianist with technique of the highest order. I believe he could play anything. I don't see Chopin sitting in a dark room with manuscript paper and a pen. It's easy to imagine Chopin just sitting down at the piano and ripping off his compositions impromptu at the piano and then writing down what he just played. I'll bet lunch that's how he composed.

I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment, and it was never my intention to incline otherwise. I merely wished to impart that it seems highly unlikely for someone who is not a master of that particular instrument to be capable of pushing the limits of virtuosity for that particular instrument. And, for many, I believe Chopin's etudes would seem to be among the very highest virtuosity.

I hope not too many people will "want."

It's 100% sensible.
If not more.

My hunch is that Chopin didn't sit away from a piano in a dark room with pen and ink and manuscript paper. It makes more sense to me that he just played the pieces whole or long phrase by long phrase and then wrote them down. I think they came out of his brain, his imagination through his fingers on the keyboard then on to paper. There are probably no telling how many pieces he made up on the spot and played in parlors all over France and Poland that weren't recorded on paper.

-1
The statement is assuming that the ego of the questioner is the cause of the question. Read carefully no such reasoning exists, simply a request for knowledge.
Are people who don't know supposed to go through life ignorant? Yes?
Oh, right, well thanks to all the "genius's" who know the answer for being so helpful.
Perhaps they should take up teaching what with their oh so helpful and generous approach, and all that.
It is strange on these forums how much ignorance is displayed by people who think they know a lot!

(I'm possibly even slipping into that nasty habit myself right now)

As for "be humble and strive" that also assumes a level of competence that does not obviously exist and should be ascertained beforehand, although it is actually nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

So, to deal with the actual question on the thread, I believe Chopin would indeed be able to play his etudes well, that is the difference between his abundant talent and my total lack of ability.

I think the important point is that Chopin's technique was different. That he says in a letter he'd like to rob Liszt of his way of playing his etudes is a clue. In another letter (not to hand) he says he knows something about the piano that the other 'greats' don't.

+1

Notice that Chopin himself has the humility to be in awe of the genious of Liszt, whereas we ("we", so to speak) kind of grudgingly admit that Chopin must have had talent "abondant" enough to play his own études.

This thread is an interesting read.

It's slightly off topic but I recently watched this interview with Horowitz who briefly talks about Chopin and Liszt and what they would sound like on record (after a joke about his nose).

Starts around 8:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4OJoAI5d5Y

Excellent comment: "Everything is invented ... nobody knows what is right and what is wrong, because it's conception."

the top of my copy of op. 10 no. 1 says Douze Grandes Etudes too (http://www.chopinmusic.net/downloads/pdf/10-01-etude.pdf)

I like the surreptitious "Don't like staying in America".