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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193069 03/05/08 05:38 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by J. Mark:
Quote
Originally posted by pianoca:
[b] I started this topic out of frustration, because my wife wants a Steinway, and has been dismissive on any of my other suggestions. frown
Do you play? What are your reasons for trying to dissuade your wife from wanting a Steinway? [/b]
To paraphrase a recent, somewhat infamous (sports) quote. I'm guessing that he has 53000 reasons to dissuade his wife from getting a Steinway.

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193070 03/05/08 06:14 PM
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pianoca: At the end of the search process, your wife might still want a Steinway. But surely it would be better if that were a decision made at the end of the process, and not at the beginning. There are a lot of glorious pianos out there--Bosendorfer (more money than a Steinway), Mason & Hamlin (a bit less than a Steinway), Estonia (a good bit less than a Steinway), to name three. She should try all of them--and then, if she still loves Steinway, you can get a Steinway, after choosing one from an educated perspective. More information cannot be bad--this is a very expensive and for-life decision. I once read a romance in which the hero reminds the heroine that he has been involved with women before her. She says that she would rather be the last woman in his life than the first. I guess the same applies to pianos! (And for those out there who treasure Regency romance novels as a not-so-secret vice, the book was These Old Shades by Georgette Heyer.)

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193071 03/05/08 06:17 PM
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"She says that she would rather be the last woman in his life than the first".

So she did not want him to marry her.....


"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193072 03/05/08 06:20 PM
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If Mozart were alive today he might be a rock musician making millions and laughing all the way to the bank. If Beethoven were alive today they'd fix his hearing and he'd love a new Steinway and possibly some other brands as well. BUT he wouldnt be subsidized by a prince and he'd have to make a living like Rachmaninoff did. Both Mozart and Beethoven would be writing something entirely different that would advance the theory of music just as they did in their day.

"But a big part of wanting a Steinway seems coming not from the desire for musicality, but other more worldly motives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. Those who take the time to really do their homework and look into other top makes (Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Bluthner, Grotrian, Steingraeber, etc.--please excuse my lack of umlauts) often don't end up with a Steinway.

What I often see is a sort of "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality."

Of course many who look at all top available brands still buy a Steinway because they sound so good and they aren't even the most expensive.

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193073 03/05/08 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Innominato:

I have posted, though, a similar thread some weeks ago, which did not sparkle any real discussion but was based along a similar line: would a piano of today be able to inspire a composer in a different way, and did the quality of the instrument at their disposal influence the inspiration of people who grew up with limited finances? Think of Schubert, for example....
During my piano search someone (I forget who) said it doesn't seem to make much difference what kind of a piano a composer plays on - a composer will compose whether on a great or poor instrument. Also, this person was of the opinion composer's often have the most out of tune pianos - the are listening for "other things". Hmmmm....

Innominato: As far as different sounding pianos inspiring different kinds of music, I think that's true whether the composer playing the piano realizes and acknowledges it or not. Frederick's Historic Piano Study Center in Ashburnham, Massachusetts is proof of that. They demonstrate how different the same piece of piano music sounds on different pianos with differing personalities. It is amazing.

I think it's natural for composers to exploit the strengths of the particular type of piano they play which comes out in the music they compose.

I once played a block chord on a piano with a heavy chocolately sounding bass - the sound was a lump of sound with the notes indistinguishable from another. Playing that same chord on a lighter voiced instrument is an entirely different experience - I could basically hear the individual notes in the chord.

Yes, I think the instrument can make a big difference in how a composer's music comes out.

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193074 03/05/08 09:42 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Innominato:
Pianoca, it is you or your wife that plays piano? Or both?

And why does she insist on a Steinway? Because of the Joneses perhaps?

But most importantly: is she a blonde? smile

----------------------------------------------

I wrote in a motorbiker forum that i was going to buy a piano and if someone had some suggestions/experiences.

Of course an idiot came out saying "for me there is only steinway", showing that he had never been near a piano in his life.

Now, if one buys a piano *to impress these people*, it will have to be a steinway.... wink

Hi, Innominato:

First, I'd just like to say I take no offense to the comments you made.

I would like to offer that I played all the pianos, or just about all of them during my piano search and after playing many pianos numerous times I chose to buy a Steinway. Because of the Steinway sound. Nothing else sounds like a Steinway and that was "the sound" I had to have.

That being said, nothing sounds like a Grotrian, or a Mason, either, and if it's the Grotrian sound that sends you (assuming sound is the most important part for you, the pianist), then you buy a Grotrian. Likewise, if that's the Mason & Hamlin sound that gets you most where you want to go, you oughta get a Mason.... There are lots of great pianos out there... and no one of them, in my experience, sounds exactly like another. Each has its own personality. And as far as which one is "best"? That's opinion and impossible to answer. The one that is "best" is the one you like best.

But sound isn't always the most important consideration for a pianist, either. Some pianists may be more interested in keyboard action or some other aspect of the piano experience.

I think some other pianos out there are more consistent in quality than today's new Steinways (my personal opinion and impression) and I definitely think some other pianos, Grotrian, for instance, have a superior keyboard action to the Steinways I played. But keyboard action was not the most important part of what I was looking for in a piano. It is the sound that was most important to me. Steinway is the sound that sends me.

Jeanne W

P.S. I'm not a blonde. laugh That reminds me, of the "Brunette" jokes I came across several years ago. They were a riot! (I'm a brunette.)


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193075 03/05/08 09:50 PM
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Pianoca,

Perhaps the best thing you could do right now is buy Larry Fine's "The Piano Book" for her. It is considered by many (even here laugh ) to be the best and most authoritative and educational piano book (although admittedly it doesn't have have much competition).

You may acheive your objective of opening her mind to all sorts of possibilities without even having to express your own concerns.

There is always the danger she might want to buy something even more expensive but you run an even chance of getting her to choose something equally satisfying at less cost and looking like a rennaissance man in the process.

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193076 03/05/08 10:25 PM
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If Mozart were alive today I think he'd be a jazz musician and probably happily playing a Yamaha.

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193077 03/06/08 02:22 AM
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No, no, you missed the point. Mozart and Beethoven would have had blondes crawling all over them... in which case they would not have wasted their time writing music.

--------------------
J. Mark
If I get a Shigeru Kawai, will I have slender asian women drape their arm around me when I play. laugh


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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193078 03/06/08 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by Virginia:
If Mozart were alive today I think he'd be a jazz musician and probably happily playing a Yamaha.
YAHHHH!
Aren't all these guy you guys are talking about DEAD?
What's the point in choosing their piano?
How many of these classical (and dead) artists would be playing Jazz (because it's so much more fun!)if alive today?
However I suppose there is no real point to that either:-(

Off to the salt lick.
Mike


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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193079 03/06/08 10:15 AM
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lol playing classical is actually so much more fun. There aren't enough octaves in jazz.

Also methinks the tonal palette would be too narrow to keep those guys interested for long.

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193080 03/06/08 12:35 PM
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I think the composers would make use of the extended tonal and dynamic range available to them.

Mozart and many other pianists in his day loved the Andreas Stein fortepianos. They were the Tier 1 pianos of their time. The only time he got to play them was when he was working as a demonstrator in the Stein showroom. Other than that, he had to settle for a cheap Walther. I guess this could be the equivalent of one of those Eastern Block uprights that fall apart in a month.

Beethoven was given various pianos during his lifetime. He owned a Conrad Graf, A John Broadwood, and a Streicher. From what I've read, he was good close friend of the Streichers, and really admired their instruments. Interesting enough, Nannerle Streicher was the daughter of Andreas Stein. She was the brains behind the business, but being a woman couldn't put her name on it so Johann-Baptiste Streicher was the name on the business. JB was an accountant and had little interest in the production side of things. Nannerle was the designer behind the instruments during this period.

The Frederick Collection has a few Streicher instruments from the 1830s to 1871. They were greatly admired in their day for the clear singing tone and nice touch. Even today, they still sound wonderful and really speak clearly.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193081 03/06/08 01:01 PM
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When it comes to modern pianos:

On which piano does Mozart and Beethoven sound best?

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193082 03/06/08 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
lol playing classical is actually so much more fun. There aren't enough octaves in jazz.

Also methinks the tonal palette would be too narrow to keep those guys interested for long.
Are you serious? The only pianist I’ve tuned for who really used all those extra notes on the Bösendorfer Imperial was Oscar Peterson. It was a rare thing to see a classical pianist down there. A good jazz pianist will use all the resources available.

ddf


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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193083 03/06/08 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by MarkS:
When it comes to modern pianos:

On which piano does Mozart and Beethoven sound best?
I think that Beethoven sounds best on the Steinway because of the tone color he's looking for especially in his later sonatas.

Mozart sounds best to me on the European pianos such as Schimmel et. al. These pianos don't have the power that can make Mozart's music over done, yet have the wonderful singing tone that makes his music sing nicely especially in the upper registers.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193084 03/06/08 01:22 PM
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Are you serious? The only pianist I’ve tuned for who really used all those extra notes on the Bösendorfer Imperial was Oscar Peterson.
I think Cecil Taylor uses them, too.


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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193085 03/06/08 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by BDB:
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Are you serious? The only pianist I’ve tuned for who really used all those extra notes on the Bösendorfer Imperial was Oscar Peterson.
I think Cecil Taylor uses them, too.
Probably. But I've not had the pleasure of tuning for Cecil.

ddf


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Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193086 03/06/08 02:35 PM
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Regarding those extra notes - I thought part of the reason Bösendorfer adds them is for the additional resonance they provide via sympathetic vibration.

If that is the case then anyone who plays a Bösendorfer makes use of those notes, whether they strike them or not.

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193087 03/06/08 02:38 PM
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Very true.
The extra notes don't sound very good anyway. They are simply too low. Even on the Imperial.
Del, I didn't mean there weren't enough REGISTERS in jazz lol. I meant octaves as in Tchaikovsky concerto wink

Re: Neither Mozart or Beethoven had a Steinway
#193088 03/06/08 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
Very true.
The extra notes don't sound very good anyway. They are simply too low. Even on the Imperial.
Del, I didn't mean there weren't enough REGISTERS in jazz lol. I meant octaves as in Tchaikovsky concerto wink
Ah! But have you heard them on Rubenstein's 365 (12') piano? That lowest bass string (a C) is 3 m (or 118") long. It's not clear whether you actually hear this note or just feel it. It sure is there, though.

ddf


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