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#1912100 - 06/11/12 10:57 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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#1912202 - 06/12/12 05:32 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: simou]  
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Hey Norm
Hope your laryngitis is getting better. It was cool to hear again your Louis singing from last October. How is your Prez singing coming along ?
You are so right about choosing the section(s) of the master solo to internalize. Especially when I got up to Wes Montgomery, some of his lines were so long, it was like "Which 2 lines will I choose to work on ?"

Hey Simou
Good swing feel for your 2nd blues tune and the 1st line was perfect. How did you go with singing the 2nd and 3rd lines of the blues tune ?
Keep on working with hitting the chords in time with the met, and don't be discouraged. I remember when I started improvising, I was grateful to Knotty for pointing out that my LH chords were not in sync with the met. As Knots pointed out, playing the Hanons slowly in time with the met will help.

Re the Louis singing, what is it about "The Last Time" which annoys you e.g. is it the dated sounding rhythm section ?
I recommend singing 10 minutes a day rather than 30 minutes all at once.
As you seem to be good at the blues, you can do "I've Got the right to sing the blues", and then come back to "The Last Time" at a later stage.

#1912220 - 06/12/12 07:13 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Funny you should mention that, custard. I have just been wondering which section of Wes I should do! laugh

Hope you feel better soon, Norm, and back to full voice.

Simou, you have a good legato. The hanon's will help a lot with finger discipline. Probably worth working some more on the blues tune before moving on. Thanks for posting!

#1913619 - 06/14/12 07:21 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Apples,

yeah I kind of unexpectedly lost my orientation after the first phrase.

I'm too much focused on learning the tunes right now. Its like for every hour that I spend practising on the piano I spend only 5 minutes with singing. So yes, I do a little bit of singing but I should probably go for much more (but I do sing along the tune in my head or hum along while I play). I think I try to follow the two week time frame for each lesson too hard. And, to be honest, also to impress my teacher, since its very rewarding to demonstrate another person what you've learned since last week. It keeps me motivated. But leaves little room for other things. That and also revisiting the "older" tunes keeps me busy. I need to change that. Thanks for your advice.

I don't know. What's so annoying about The Last Time? I think the overall tempo is bugging me. You know, like if you speed up an old vinyl recording? Playing it just a tad too fast. It simply doesn't sound right. But hey there yet many more to come, so never mind.

10, yep I better stay at lesson #2 for another week I think. I can play the blues now, but definitely the jazz tune needs more time. Thanks!

---------------------------------
I was going to ask you some questions about the chord voicings and some theory behind the blues tune, but its getting late now and I already wrote more than I intended to. So next time. Have a nice day/night everyone and happy swinging!
---------------------------------






Last edited by simou; 06/14/12 07:28 PM.
#1913856 - 06/15/12 06:24 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey Simou
That's great that you're singing the JOI tunes.

If you have an hour to practise each day, this is how I personally would spend it.

10 min Master solo
10 min Hanon
10 min Chord voicings
10 min JOI blues tune
15 min JOI jazz tune
5 min exploration

For the master solos, I usually learn them at 25% speed. If there are phrases in 16th notes, I slow it down to 15%.

For exploration, I mean just that. For example, I've noticed you're experimenting nicely with embellishments/ inner lines. So if you find a long space in the JOI jazz tune, you can play around with melodies to fill in the space.

In terms of enjoying the JOI course, I've personally found that the less I rush, the more I enjoy it. It's fine to spend 3 weeks per lesson. I think Norm has the discipline to mark out his bars/ phrases to enable him to learn a lesson in 4 weeks, that's great too.

tschüß


#1914848 - 06/17/12 10:06 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey guys,

2 pics I posted in the other thread from this week. There were a few more but noone there to take pics unfortunately.

Jazz Tavern called Takoma Station:
[Linked Image]

And an embassy gig on a brand new Boston piano. (hammers untouched)
[Linked Image]

#1914868 - 06/17/12 10:49 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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nice shoes.

#1914869 - 06/17/12 10:49 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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looking really good:)

#1914888 - 06/17/12 11:43 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey, knots, you've been busy! I note the change in dress code. You wouldn't want to get that wrong, would you?

#1915150 - 06/18/12 07:23 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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I'm glad you all like my shoes so much. They are often a topic of elevator conversation. They are nice shoes indeed so thanks for the sharp eye. And I didn't realize Keith wore similar ones, but I'll take Cus' word for it.

Dave and others:
Some names of good blues to listen to?


#1918878 - 06/26/12 11:13 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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I don't know whether my effort is all that good to listen to, but now that I'm over this bout of laryngitis, I can now be Blue Over You.


Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1919006 - 06/26/12 03:35 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey, Norm, I'm glad you're finally over the laryngitis. I've missed your singing! The singing and playing are both fab. If you want to pick hairs, there are very slight rhythm inaccuracies that would probably be ironed out by playing to a metronome e.g. bar 9 you give that 8th rest just a fraction too long. But I think you're mostly playing and singing quite accurately apart from that. When you sing to the met, the pulse is better.

Thanks for posting and waking us out of our summer and winter slumbers.

#1919025 - 06/26/12 04:27 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Thanks 10 for your feedback and comments. It does bring up an interesting issue: Metronome vs Rhythm Track. For reasons of ease, quality and comfort, I typically practice with a swing rhythm track and then record with a simple metronome at the same rhythm.

(Garageband doesn't record the metronome, so you couldn't hear it. Unfortunately, Garageband does record the rhythm track, transforming it into an ugly intrusive atonal bleat. So, by necessity, I turn it off)

I lose track of (read: ignore) the pulse of the metronome in part because I'm so used to having the swing eighths explicitly stated for me. In fact, it takes me a while to get used to a mere metronome due to such a dependence. It sounds so sparse, so lonely. I must work to "Think Swing" instead of having a side of swing served to me on a silver platter.

So does the externalized rhythm track help me to internalize the swing, or does it tempt me to be lazy and undisciplined when faced with a lowly metronome?

Then again, is dependency on a rhythm section such a bad thing?




Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1919040 - 06/26/12 05:00 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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So you recorded that to metronome, even though I couldn't hear it? Only it sounded more accurate for the singing where I could hear the metronome.

#1919055 - 06/26/12 05:41 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Yep 10, That was no Metronome, that was my Track. I recorded the keyboard with the Metronome, and the singing with the Rhythm Track.

I guess that means you vote for the Rhythm Section over the poor humble metronome.


Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1919072 - 06/26/12 06:39 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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OK, now I am so confused. I asked if you recorded the keyboard to metronome and you said yes (like you were agreeing with me) and that that was no metronome.

I am sure this makes sense somehow, I'll come back in the morning and find it then! laugh

#1919079 - 06/26/12 07:00 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Whoops 10! I think I have a gift for the nonsensical. I treated your opening question like a statement, and your following statement like a question. The "Yep" was in reference to the singing (Yes it did sound more accurate), not the first two keyboard tracks. I should have made that more clear.

The singing was more accurate because I was singing to the Rhythm Track. But the sound quality was worse because I recorded through the computer's microphone.

The solo keyboard was less accurate because I was playing to (or rebelling against) the metronome. But the sound quality was better because I recorded through the MIDI cable.

I might possibly dispense with the metronome altogether and record with the Swing Track through my computer's microphone. The sound quality would be a tad worse, but the timing might be better. Yet with the metronome, I won't have to rely on an outsourced swing. I'll weigh the pro's and con's.


Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1919240 - 06/27/12 01:50 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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OK, I think I'm with you now. So, as you have this one at your fingertips now (and if you have the time and inclination), why not re record again, keyboard:
1. to rhythm track
2. to audible metronome, so we can compare.
Don't worry about the sound quality being poor, we'll still be able to hear where the notes are.

#1919291 - 06/27/12 06:49 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Norman Cotterell]  
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Hey Norm
Thanks for posting Lesson 8 blues, it was fun to listen to your sung version which was swinging and rhythmically accurate.
I concur with 10 that the slight rhythmic inaccuracies of your non-sung version can be ironed out with consistent daily practice with a met. While rhythm sections might be fun to play along with, it is the met that will help you develop the internal feel of the centre of the beat.
Rhythm is hard, I'm sometimes not hitting right in the middle of beat 1 with my LH chords when I improvise.

#1919299 - 06/27/12 07:17 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Norm,
Very nice progress.
The back up rhythm section is OK to start, but quickly, the metromome will strengthen your rhythm better.
Especially when you start soloing with the feeling in 4.

#1919421 - 06/27/12 11:13 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Hey Everybody, thanks for you feedback. Per 10's suggestion, I have a back-to-back comparison. The first version is with the Rhythm track, the second with the Metronome. Both are recorded with mic, not MIDI.

Blue Over You Twice




Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1919508 - 06/27/12 01:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hi well Norm, you can certainly play the tune just great! The pulse sounded spot on.

Now, if you have trouble playing to a bare metronome, it may be worthwhile at least some of the time, reverting back to boring ol' whole note chord in left hand, and playing the rh as written (i.e. not anticipating the beat, which you like to do).

But, the main thing is, you're making progress, that's great to see.

I have some recordings to share, will post later.

#1919930 - 06/28/12 07:27 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Norman Cotterell]  
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That was just extremely cool Norm.
You are flying through Lesson 8.

#1920297 - 06/28/12 09:54 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Thanks 10 and Cus for your encouragement. Funny, I always thought my pulse was a tad irregular.

Anyhow, in the interest of further beating a dead horse, I woefully submit three versions: One with metronome, another with rhythm track, and a third sung quickly with finger snaps. Regarding the third, I stopped short when I saw my son standing before me, arms folded, shaking his head in horror.

I hope your reaction is more merciful, because it seems I'm Getting Contrapuntal over You.



Every disease is a musical problem. Its cure, a musical solution. -- Novalis
#1920399 - 06/29/12 02:57 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Norman Cotterell]  
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Originally Posted by Norman Cotterell
I stopped short when I saw my son standing before me, arms folded, shaking his head in horror.


What was he saying? Was it - look, dad, you have all this talent, and we still live here? Or - just don't do this when my friends are round. laugh

I think your singing is yabbily dabbily fantastissimo!

Playing also good. Congratulations on another lesson well done!

#1920435 - 06/29/12 06:30 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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It's been a while since I submitted any recording here, but I've not been totally idle. Here's Footnotes from lesson 39:

https://www.box.com/s/f67bee7e6a4ec0483417

This one was a real challenge, which is why I recorded. I just could not for the life of me get my left hand to play an F#7 (bar 6) and if I did, it invariably stalled at the Bb7 (bar 2). Don't know why this should be *so* very difficult. What is this tune anyway?

I had had a bit of a meltdown trying to improvise to Beautiful Love, so went back to Lady be Good:

https://www.box.com/s/df8e9a1e49d8d179c6f3

Comments and suggestions gratefully received.

Also been singing to Wes Montgomery. D natural blues:
https://www.box.com/s/698d51610fde9ddaac68

Fairly self-explanatory. Perhaps I should just add that at around 2.06 I found myself gyrating on the spot and slowly removing an article of clothing. I suddenly stopped short when I noticed my son standing before me, arms folded, shaking his head in horror...

#1920442 - 06/29/12 07:21 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Really nice lady be good.
You can try to vary your entrances a little, not starting on 1 as much, and also your ending.
You can try sprinkling some triplets also.

#1920456 - 06/29/12 08:33 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Good points, thanks! smile

#1920483 - 06/29/12 09:34 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Norman Cotterell]  
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Originally Posted by Norman Cotterell
Thanks 10 and Cus for your encouragement. Funny, I always thought my pulse was a tad irregular.

Anyhow, in the interest of further beating a dead horse, I woefully submit three versions: One with metronome, another with rhythm track, and a third sung quickly with finger snaps. Regarding the third, I stopped short when I saw my son standing before me, arms folded, shaking his head in horror.

I hope your reaction is more merciful, because it seems I'm Getting Contrapuntal over You.



Wow Norm !!!
Once again, I have to say that the improvement in your playing from lesson to lesson is enormous.
Your vocal range is really large, the high arps and low arps don't bother you at all.
Your great scat singing indicates that you will be ready for composition very soon.

Enjoy Lesson 9.

#1920489 - 06/29/12 09:46 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]  
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Hi 10
Lesson 39 is Giant Steps by Trane. Harmonic movement is in maj 3rds: B maj7 to Eb maj 7 to G maj 7. Yes the F#7 is hard, even harder when you drop the A# to the bottom note to enable you to hold down the minim for the full 2 beat value.

The melodic content of your improv was nice. How long have you spent on Lady Be Good ? If you are not sick of it, I would also learn the head in either F maj or G maj as some extra practice for ear training.

If you are sick of it, you can do more C maj songs. If you want easy, you can try Lady Bird. If you want slightly harder, you can try Satin Doll.

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