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Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 #1927689
07/16/12 05:51 PM
07/16/12 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38
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Monco Offline OP
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Monco  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38
I'm in the process of analysing Mozart's minuet's. I'm stuck with "Minuet in D Major" which is labeled as K7 in my Alfred Master Work edition.

[Linked Image]

I can't figure out what's happening in measures 5 and 6 (7 and 8 are nearly the same). It starts out with what looks like a B minor chord, but then the D# creeps in. Is that a passing tone? D# is not part of A major, so that's why I think it's a passing tone. I'm not surprised by the modulation to A major, because that's common (modulation down a fifth).

And lastly, is it possible to put Roman numerals underneath the notes in measures 5 and 6 just like I did in the other measures?

Thank you.

Last edited by Monco; 07/16/12 05:52 PM.
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Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: Monco] #1927692
07/16/12 06:16 PM
07/16/12 06:16 PM
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beet31425 Offline
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beet31425  Offline
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Monco,

The D# is part of a B7 chord (after the B minor chord). B functions here as V of E, which is where the progression goes in the next measure. (And that E itself is functioning as V of A.)

Also, in measure 3: because of the E in the melody, I would call that first chord ii (in first inversion) rather than IV. Lots of progressions that might look like I-IV-V are really I-ii-V (which admittedly sound very similar).

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: Monco] #1927693
07/16/12 06:21 PM
07/16/12 06:21 PM
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pianojerome Offline
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It looks to me like a little circle-of-fifths sequence. It starts with B minor -- the relative minor of D Major. The D# makes it a dominant 7th chord leading to the E major chord that starts the next measure. That E major chord, in turn, has a D-natural added to it, making it a dominant 7th of A major. Sure enough, that measure ends with an A major chord. These two measures, as you said, are repeated. Then the A major chord is the dominant chord of D, which you correctly identified as IV in the concluding IV-V-I cadence.

So how to mark it in your score? There are a couple of approaches. One way is to label the B Minor chord "vi" and just write "--- circle of fifths ---" all the way through the "IV" in m. 9. This way, you can see that, as a whole, the progression is "vi - IV - V - i" (a common cadence), with some fun modulating stuff in between the vi and IV.

Another way would be to label the B Minor chord (in both m. 5 and m. 7) as "vi", and the A Major chord at the end of mm. 6 and 8 as "V/IV" or "V of IV", and write "--- circle of fifths ----" in between.

Another way would be to get even more specific and label each individual chord, starting with B Minor: vi - V/ii - ii - V/V - V (repeat) (and then IV-V-I at the end).

It might also make sense to label the last two measures "IV/A -- V/A -- I/A" to signal that there's a modulation here.

Ultimately, how you mark it depends on what makes the most sense to you!

Last edited by pianojerome; 07/16/12 06:39 PM.

Sam
Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: beet31425] #1927697
07/16/12 06:31 PM
07/16/12 06:31 PM
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pianojerome Offline
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Originally Posted by beet31425

Also, in measure 3: because of the E in the melody, I would call that first chord ii (in first inversion) rather than IV. Lots of progressions that might look like I-IV-V are really I-ii-V (which admittedly sound very similar).

-J


What about calling the entire measure V7?

Since there's only one harmony for all of mm. 1-2 and 4, it seems to me that it would be strange to have two different harmonies in the first two beats of m. 3. In m. 9, though, it makes sense, because the circle-of-fifths progression already moves so quickly.

Last edited by pianojerome; 07/16/12 06:36 PM.

Sam
Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: Monco] #1927708
07/16/12 06:51 PM
07/16/12 06:51 PM
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Kuanpiano Offline
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You can just pivot using the D chord in bar 4 to modulate to A major. Then bars 5 onward look like:

ii6 - V65/V - V - V42 - I6

Then the last line becomes: (bar 7 and onwards)

ii6 - V65/V - V - V42 - I6 - ii6 - I64 - V - I





Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: Monco] #1928208
07/17/12 05:19 PM
07/17/12 05:19 PM
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Monco Offline OP
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Monco  Offline OP
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beet31425, pianojerome and Kuanpiano: thank you very much for your analysis!

I have decided to write it down like this: [Linked Image]

Originally Posted by beet31425


Also, in measure 3: because of the E in the melody, I would call that first chord ii (in first inversion) rather than IV. Lots of progressions that might look like I-IV-V are really I-ii-V (which admittedly sound very similar).

-J


As a former jazz pianist, I can say that in jazz "ii-V" has pretty much replaced "IV-V". Now the ii and IV have a similar function, so it doesn't make much of a difference as you've said. I was under the impression that in classical music, especially in Mozart's time, the IV-V still prevailed. However, I'm relatively new to analysing classical music, so I obviously can't be too sure. My analysis was based on the bass line, and not so much on the melody. In jazz melodies it's pretty to common to stress the 6th of the scale (or any extension of the chord for that matter), so I didn't consider that a problem.

Last edited by Monco; 07/17/12 05:25 PM.
Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: Monco] #1928219
07/17/12 05:39 PM
07/17/12 05:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
Bay Area, CA
beet31425 Offline
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beet31425  Offline
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Originally Posted by Monco
As a former jazz pianist, I can say that in jazz "ii-V" has pretty much replaced "IV-V". Now the ii and IV have a similar function, so it doesn't make much of a difference as you've said. I was under the impression that in classical music, especially in Mozart's time, the IV-V still prevailed.

This is a false impression. smile

I-ii-V is far more prevalent in classical than I-IV-V, partly because the former uses a little bit of the circle of fifths (ii -> V -> I).

Moreover, I'm not sure of the whole way you're framing the difference. You suggest that IV-V used to be more popular, and in jazz the ii-V "replaced" the IV-V, while perhaps back in Mozart's day that replacement hasn't happened yet. But I question that narrative. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that ii-V has *always* been more important historically, and that in fact it's IV-V that has replaced ii-V to some degree in modern times, especially in pop music.

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
Re: Chord progressions in Mozart K.7 [Re: beet31425] #1928222
07/17/12 05:46 PM
07/17/12 05:46 PM
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Monco Offline OP
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Monco  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by beet31425

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that ii-V has *always* been more important historically, and that in fact it's IV-V that has replaced ii-V to some degree in modern times, especially in pop music.

-J


That is entirely possible. I don't claim to be a credible source of music history smile Perhaps, as you say, my impression was wrong. I know that IV-V is very prevalent in pop music, but I don't know the origin of this chord progression.
My music teacher once told me that IV-V came before the ii-V, but I could be wrong. Also, I don't know whether he meant in jazz or in music in general.

Last edited by Monco; 07/17/12 05:52 PM.

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