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methinks i struck a raw nerve.

put me in the camp that doesn't understand the magic of putting your best digital technology in a wooden case to sit in the den, and handicapping that which could travel outside the home (where having the product seen in public might be the BEST FREE ADVERTISING YOU COULD GET?). but then i do own an acoustic too...

You did indeed! There is false logic at work here. These companies are paranoid that they need to differentiate sufficiently between their own models. What they don't get is that - in Casio's case - the competition is not between the PX-350 and PX-850, but between the PX-350 and the Roland RD-300NX (or FP-whatever), and between the PX-850 and the Roland HP5xx. If you're in the market for a portable device, you're not going to be interested in hauling half-a-pallet's-worth of chipboard! There is no need to cripple the PX-350 for fear of damaging the sales of the 850.

Likewise, the market for the Kawai ES-7 is different from that for the CA-95. The extended action of the new CAs is sufficient in itself to differentiate the models. That would be impractical in a portable device, but the sound engine is critical to the success of both. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: stop forcing customers to use software to make up for inadequate sound engines! Your top models are barely good enough as it is - there is no excuse for even lower standards.


I couldn't agree more. I posted something almost identical a couple of years ago when the MP6 was launched with a lesser engine to the beautiful but hugely heavy (and therefore not readily portable) MP10. Do these guys listen? No, sadly not. They'd obviously rather have so-so sounds heard on stages around the world than interfere with their precious marketing segmentation.

When I worked in the electronics industry the people in sales had much more say over the products than us engineers. We had all sorts of software options that required expensive "keys" to unlock (lame, but better than requiring an "upgraded" hardware platform to get the desired functionality). And when I was leaving it seemed like the supply chain people were taking over. Too many cooks with their own fiefdoms to defend. Mix in the brain dead upper management team and you get a perfect storm of stupid (and as Ron White says, you can't fix stupid). Literally any idiot can run a fundamentally undemocratic organization for a while. It's a wonder that any product makes sense.

We can harangue James and Mike until we're blue in the face, but our strong desires and constructive criticisms (if passed up the ladder) still must run a somewhat nonsensical gauntlet before they have a chance of making any difference at all.

I guess... what i'm NOT appreciating... is that the heaviness of real piano actions is what defines the home console from the performance board that travels. i keep thinking that someone should create a modular design. a performance board weighing 30-40 pounds that can be "parked" in an attractive cabinet with built in speakers for the home. and then easily removed to travel. But i guess you couldn't do that and get the best action- you'd compromise in favor of either the light travel board or the heavy home console. or maybe you could have plug and play actions- one for travel and one for home?

just thinking...

Oh, I agree entirely. I'm not wanting to harangue either of these two great guys. After all, it wasn't Kawai that put James in the "firing line," but his own desire to share his enthusiasm. But James (and I suspect Mike) knows what gigging musicians want and need. The very fact that he upgraded his Electro 2 to a 3 was presumably in a search for the very best sounds he could get in a lightweight package. That is the same for all of us who need to perform peripatetically. I would suspect also that these guys are fully aware of the gauntlet that must be run as feedback is passed up the chain. But unless we make the noise, nothing even stands a chance of being acted upon.

I think the key word here is marketing. Since Casio has traditionally been at the lower end of the price scale, most of their painos have offered similar features at lower price points. Now they seem to want to differentiate their lower end models from their upper range models and offer the 256 poly and sympat resonance on the high end PX-850. They still haven't announced the Celviano line yet and what's going on there. It still seems to come down to Casio holding the line on price, but offering something reasonably competitive for less. If Casio were to go toe to toe with Roland, Korg, and Kawai on price, wouldn't there still be resistance to spending that kind of money for a Casio given their history?

sure.... and that doesn't assume that "history" equates with something perjorative. Casio delivers solid value for its price. But it is in the "value" segment.

i would always expect to pay less for an american car vs a european car- feature for feature, even though american cars are very competitive these days. And there isn't anything Ford or GM can do to change my mind on that. And that's probably true with Casio- fairly or unfairly. i guess that's why we see "Privia" and "Celviano"- as an attempt to get the next generation to look at those as specific brands, not as Casio brands.. Perhaps, that will allow them to go head to head with Rol-maha on both price and technology.

Me- i love Casio. my first digital piano was a Casio in the mid 80's. real cheese but great fun to play.

I think I prefer Yama-land.

Kawamaland.

Im interested in the PX 850 even though I find it to be very unattractive...

Sorry for coming to the party late, but I must say that this could be very promising for Casio! Like many have said here, Mike Martin please pass our suggestions on to the developers over at Casio. Please have them really program professional dynamic electric pianos (Rhodes and Wurlitzers) better than what was previously available. I've noticed that there are the same number of other tones (250) as previous Privia models (330 and the PX-3). I hope that you guys take advantage of your new AiR chip and simply don't do a rehash of previous samples.

Also Mike would it be possible to suggest opening up and unlocking some of those new parameters available like sympathetic resonance and possible key off? Please don't skimp on features just to protect sales from a higher end model. Make the PX-350 be the higher portable stage model with Casio's top features so that more professional musicians would see that you guys mean business and really consider using your keyboards on stage live.

Mike would it be possible to unlock the sympathic resonance and key off effect (while still keeping the damper resonance) in the PX-350 and make it compete with the likes of the big boys ex: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai and Korg? I'm sorry for the ranting on, but like many others on this forum, I see the potential of these new Privias and am really considering one when they are available.

+1

Mike is hiding in the corner...begging God to forgive him for posting on this forum.

Marketing wise (since it's those guys that seem to decide and spoil everything anyway , together with the management team ) it would be an idea to have the 'unlock' features as a paid upgrade option. You buy px350 without resonance and purchase an upgrade pack for $$ to unlock extra features. Similar in the way that many software packages are sold. Same beast, just need some unlock codes to get acces to some extra features.

Heck, these instruments are sort of computers with software anyway - so nothing new there..as long as the same chipsets are used over the whole range (very likely). I would say do yourself a favor and put the same electronics and software (firmware) in the whole range and differentiate between them (only) through there hardware features. Cabinet, speaker system, keybed, connections , stuff like that...

Just an idea ; do you get a downsized (feature poor) version of your operating system, when you buy a cheaper model computer ?. E.g. all Macs come with a full Osx from Mac mini, to octacore Mac Pro - they are differentiated in hardware specs and options. DP makers do just that; you get a lower model - than the machine will also have a light version of the OS letting you only use email and nothing else. Get the idea...

Whilst we would all like the 350 to have the same feature set as the 850 - I can see there's a problem in trying to distinguish between the myriad of almost identical machines - in particular I can see them wanting to hang on to some of these features for an updated PX3, which I would expect to be announced in a year.

Question for Mike: I haven't tried line out from my 330, but there have been comments here about its implementation being a bit useless with the requirement for a headphone jack to cancel the onboard speakers and the addition of a headphone jack altering the sound sent to line out. Has this been corrected?

I think you guys may be taking the word "unlock" a little too literally.

i.e. the new "AIR" sound engine may have the ability to do something, but the key to "unlocking" the functionality may not be as simple as deciding to enable it; it may require additional hardware be installed as well.

Corrected? That makes the assumption that it isn't done that way on purpose. The majority of players I speak to prefer to have the built-in speakers ON even when the Privia is amplified elsewhere. Why? They like to feel the vibration coming from within the Privia cabinet itself. I've had number of people tell me that they preferred the PX-330 of the PX-3 for this reason alone. So to answer your question, the PX-350 works exactly the same way as the PX-330 in this regard.



My fault for using that word but Scott is correct, this isn't just a software "switch".

Vect:
there have been comments here about its implementation being a bit useless with the requirement for [1] a headphone jack to cancel the on-board speakers and [2] the addition of a headphone jack altering the sound sent to line out. Has this been corrected?

Mike:
Corrected? That makes the assumption that it isn't done that way on purpose.

Does that also apply to [2] If so, will it remain that way?

The only way to disable the speakers on the PX-350 is by plugging (something) into the headphone jack. Does that answer your question?

Hi Mike. No, that answers point [1] - which is clear (that is the same system as on my DP). But it does not address point [2], mentioned above, which would perhaps affect the line out's usefulness, as Vectistim suggested.