Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Keeping a child engaged

I'll bet this is a common topic. I started our 7 year old daughter on piano lessons 2 weeks ago, and she is really enthusiastic about it. She has seen me play piano and has been asking for several months when she can learn how to do it. Now she practices several times a day at her own initiative and really seems to like it. However, I know children can be fickle and anticipate the day she will announce she doesn't like piano any more. Are there any tried and true methods to keep children going on the piano for the long term, or does it just depend on the child's temperament? And if she does decide she isn't interested, is there anything I should do? Wait for her to get interested again? Force her to keep up her lessons and practicing for "her own good"? My own parents gave me the gift of piano lessons in my youth and had the good sense to insist I keep practicing even when I wasn't interested. However, I'm worried that if I use the same technique it may backfire. I only get one chance after all.

Tell her she has to stick with it until she reaches at least Level 6, preferably Level 8. No ifs, ands or buts. In some areas completion of music exams can qualify for high school credit, where I am, for piano Basic (or Intermediate?) Rudiments with Level 7 Piano is one non-grade 12 music credit, and Advanced Rudiments with Level 8 Piano is valid as a grade 12 music credit. (not sure about CA, I'm in Southern Ontario, though was in SoCal last May visiting a music/piano friend there.) Take her to see pianists having a role in chamber music, to develop a sound concept for other instruments that she may develop an interest in before band or orchestra starts in school. Regain your piano skills and play duets with her, I personally like the In Recital Duets, Book 1 has several that my students love.

One technique to getting students to practice is offering 1 minute of practice time for 1 minute of video game, TV, or computer time. (Several of my student's parents use this one very successfully) Offering them a choice to practice or do a chore that they dislike works really well too. Especially once they are past the first level of a method book, encourage them to play for school talent shows, friends, family, for music class at school. The friends and family ones can be done even when they are in the first book. Give a few days advance notice for performing for friends and family. One of the two pairs of sisters I currently teach sometimes have family visiting from Serbia, and they are always so happy to play for their Grandma, aunts, and uncles who visit (one is coming for the second time since they started in October), both are doing quite well to very well especially the older girl. If you have the ability, audio or video record one or two of their pieces every month, and then show them through a difficult moment what they used to find "hard"! Use goal-oriented practice, which they have to complete what's required, but can take as much or as little time as they need.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Meri

Music can be loved for its own sake. If somebody of any age chooses to learn to play an instrument of her own accord, and enjoys it, why make it secondary? In other words, make the goal attaining grades and passing RCM exams? Or make the goal getting a treat? At that point, the music has stopped being the goal. It almost sends a message that music can't be enjoyable because these other things are needed as the "real" goals. You can have cake after eat your liver. Music is liver?

When I first taught, I inherited grade 2 students who had already lost their curiosity and love of learning because they were enticed by rewards. It was still possible to reawaken their curiosity because they were only 7 years old, but it was a chore. I vowed not to raise my own children that way. One of my youngsters did enter music. The first thing he opted out of were the RCM exams, because they would interfere with his pursuit of music. And we do hear of students and former students who would enjoy their studies more, if only they could start concentrating on the music and not have to worry about exams.

There is a problem that is basic to everyone:

Self-motivated people will never understand people who have to be motivated. If the desire to learn comes from within us, then no amount of pressure or reward is going to make us try harder. Nothing makes me more angry than being pushed, and I have been that way my entire life. Music was the one place I got to skip the insanity of grades, testing, one-size-fits-all thinking. By the way, I think this also happens in sports. Music and sports tend to bypass a lot of bunk when the aim is excellence that stands on its own.

If grades and competitions and certificates are what push people forward, they will never understand those of us who function differently.

My best students are like me. They are fascinated by music, and that fascination drives them. Many of them are additionally motivated by playing for others and receiving positive reactions. There is no reason why people with a competitive nature will not benefit from the additional challenges of ratings and the inevitable comparison that comes with playing in situations that make it impossible not to watch and listen to other people.

But my view is that the "fire in the belly" should be the driving force, not all the other things. If the drive comes from within and there is always a hunger for more music, more musical experience, then I think a lifetime attachment to playing is much more likely - which should always be the goal.

I think a child's reaction coupled with the parents response will show the outcome. At 7 she has probably done several activities already. Does she still do them? Was she allowed to quit on her terms? Your terms? How did you work through it with her? How does she do when encountering a math problem she gets wrong? Or solve one that she hasn't seen before? I think that these situations set the stage for future endeavors (piano or whatever the select). Some kids get their first bit of difficulty and their instinct is to put up a wall and quit. They are resistant to any teaching and complain it's too hard. Some kids are workhorses and plow through the easy and the hard. Some kids want the hard and have a hard time getting through the basics. So first you have to determine what kind of learner you have and how to support her.

What works for one student can be completely the opposite of what works for another. I don't think a parent should choose what their child should do. Initially there can be an offering, then maybe a time commitment but untimately a child will stay with what is most engaging to them.

Maybe you could take her to a music store so she can select a book.

I am with Gary on a lifetime attachment to music.

rada

At what age did you find your true love of music and started to self motivate to work hard?
Were there moments in your life that you felt lost or discouraged to the point that you wanted to give up? How old were you at that time and how did you overcome it?

Unfortunately for us, most students don't fall into that category. I have no idea what the ratio would be, but I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 20 are intrinsically motivated. Pity.

The child in question:
- wanted to learn to play the piano
- started practicing on her own, and kept doing so for several months
- has had several weeks of lessons, and is enjoying them

Surely this is an intrinsically motivated child.

If, as suggested, this child is now told that she "has" to take lessons up to a certain level "no ifs, ands, or and buts" will she continue enjoying them as before? If she presently enjoys the instrument and music, does it make sense to reorient her toward things like earning credits? Similarly, if she is "rewarded" with t.v. or computer game time for practicing, does that not send the message that t.v. is worthwhile and there is something wrong with music since it needs to be rewarded? Are you not changing the child's goals from learning to play, to a new goal of finishing piano practice as fast as possible because the real goal is watching t.v.? In my mind, these things will hurt the motivation that exists rather than help.

I'm just throwing ideas around, using what some of my student's parents have used to get them to practice and stick with it. Some of the kids after a few months practiced a lot but did not use all of their computer/TV/video game time, found it rewarding enough to play, and have done well at both formal and informal performances.

Meri

You'll see what the intrinsic motivation is when things start to get difficult.

Yes, indeed. That is when it kicks in especially strongly and shows its stuff. Good point.

Meri, I really like your advice. Like a lot of other posters on this forum, I am a bit idealistic too, and think motivation should come from within in order for music to truly be enjoyable. However, I am dealing with a 7 year old who can get bored with things quite easily. If I made school or homework optional, she would have dropped out of the first grade within the first month. She likes piano for now which is great, though it will take years before she gets to reap the rewards and I am fearful she will lose interest long before then. Kids don't think long term (or at least mine doesn't). I am looking for practical tips from teachers and other parents on what has kept their young students going (and what doesn't). If my little one has that "fire in the belly" I will consider myself lucky.

MaggieGirl, you have asked some excellent questions. I understand that what works and what doesn't depends on the child. At different times, I see a different style of learner in her. When she wants something, she will work hard to get it. When she turned 4, she wanted to take off the training wheels. Her idea, not mine. After some hard determined work, she was riding within hours. The next day she wanted to learn to start without a push from dad. She fell off her bike many times but kept getting back on, and by the end of the weekend she could do it. Other times, she gives up right away because she is not "good" at something. At times she doesn't grasp that no one is naturally good without a lot of hard work. She does get bored easily with some activities (not all), and I think that is my biggest concern.

We will see how it goes, but I think I am inclined to make it mandatory (with enticements) like homework, up to a point. I just don't want to fall into any common pitfalls right out of the gate.

A good teacher can really help ease the way. If the instruction is solid and the teacher actually teaches the child how to practice AND you help her follow through in an encouraging way, you have a pretty good formula going.

The teacher, if he/she is on the ball, will also figure out what kinds of literature motivates your child to spend more time at the piano. That won't happen right away -- your daughter needs to acquire the basic skills of reading, technique and musicianship -- but good repertoire that she responds to will help a lot.

Unfortunately, a great percentage of students will have already quit piano by then.

Minniemay, that is what I was hoping to read. But above all, I did not want to read that if a child is interested in playing the piano, that the first thing you do is to give the child non-piano goals. I have believed for a long time that skills themselves are motivating.

John,

If we are talking about children who feel as I do, as a young person, I would say that is astonishingly RARE.

1) I never had to be told to practice.
2) I never wanted to skip lessons.
3) No matter what I was working on, I was dreaming about getting the skills/experience to move forward to something new.
4) I wanted to be performing pianist within a year or so of starting lessons.
5) I spent HOURS each day listening to music. I bought my own records - yes records, back in the days of the dinosaurs.
6) I listened to the radio, and when I heard something new and exciting, I bought the recording.
7) I shaped the musical tastes of my PARENTS, who gradually began listening to MY records.

As I keep trying to explain here, if I wanted to do something, I was almost impossible to stop. But if I did NOT want to do something, I was impossible to manipulate.

So no, none of my students are like me.

HOWEVER: they have different degrees of interest, and I would rather work with what they bring me, unforced, than appear to excel more when the "success" is actually the force of my will, working through them, to accomplish what I want - if it is not also what they want.

Hard to describe.

Question: is it possible that all of us, to some extent, attract the people who are like us? My students tend to be misfits, rebels, free-thinkers, skeptics, unorthodox. I have my share of "good little girls and boys", and I'm not saying that they are not easy to work with. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the students who more or less do as they are told provided that I feel they enjoy working with me.

But it is the rebels that float my boat. They often make me crazy too, but I joke about "karma". They are like I was, questioning everything, and I enjoy them. That doesn't mean that on bad days I don't want to scream at them for being stubborn, willful and so on, but in the end it is rather hard for me to fault people for being like me.

Gary D, you sound like me. Are any of your students 7 or thereabouts? Have any of them quit? What causes one to quit and another to continue?

OT, Meri, I clicked on the link in your signature and looked at your music school. Amazing! I want to come study at your school! Too bad I live in California. And have a full time job.

These are fair questions. I do have some suggestions:

1) If it is clear to you daughter's teacher that she has zero talent, and piano lessons will just be a huge waste of money, then by all means stop the lessons. There's no point to force people to do things they aren't good at.

2) If your daughter wants to quit piano, loses interest, or gets involved in idiotic peer groups who think piano is "for losers" (I actually had a couple of students who hang out with piano-haters), then you need to have a frank discussion with her. Piano is an optional activity, but it is also an investment. If she quits while advancing to, say, level 3 or 4, then it will be important to let her know that you've already invested quite a bit of money, and quitting there will be a big waste of money (and time, and effort) that has already been invested. Do a cost/benefit analysis with her.

3) A large percentage of students quit before they ever made it out of method books. I've come to accept that fact. It is not an indication of "failure" on the part of the parent, teacher, or student. If your daughter falls in that category, you can just tell yourself, "Hey, join the club!"


I have many students who take piano because their parents made them. Those who "stick it out" tend to score higher on tests and get into better colleges. But that's just a personal opinion based on a small sample of really dedicated Asian-American students.