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Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #1985293
11/11/12 09:42 AM
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Read it again, max. That's not what I said.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


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Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #1985297
11/11/12 09:53 AM
11/11/12 09:53 AM
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Maximillyan Online embarrased OP
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Originally Posted by rxd
Read it again, max. That's not what I said.

So, what are You talked?

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #1998137
12/12/12 01:04 AM
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Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #1998163
12/12/12 02:23 AM
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Thank you, Max I haven't heard "Hearts amd Flowers" for years.
Did you tune the Yamaha?


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


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Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #1998168
12/12/12 02:40 AM
12/12/12 02:40 AM
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Maximillyan Online embarrased OP
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Originally Posted by rxd
Thank you, Max I haven't heard "Hearts amd Flowers" for years.
Did you tune the Yamaha?

Yes,I am.In the Russian version of the name of this romance "I met you" Я встретил Вас.
This is my first try a grand piano temperament use a professional hammer(gift's pianolive). I got up a pitch of this grand from 438 to 440.

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #1998184
12/12/12 03:55 AM
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This represents quite a large improvement.

I suspect that, even though the a was 438, the treble may have been even lower so going over the tuning twice would have produced a better result.

The next step is to use other intervals as checks when tuning octaves and also in checking your work before finishing. By using these checks you will also realise the need for more care in the temperament. Tuning is a lifetimes study.

There are a couple of current threads on this forum that have a lot of good information on this.

Thank you for confirming our faith in you.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #1998197
12/12/12 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rxd
This represents quite a large improvement.
Thank you for confirming our faith in you.

Thank you for your message,rxd . For me it was very important, especially your estimation, I'm touched. Over the year I was read many topics our forum about the tuning. Now sometimes me try manage temperament. Client-owner of Yamaha was pleased this temperament. I was afraid to pull the bass strings and long conjured over the every pins, but the Lord protected me. I did tuning this Grand! I thank all the technicians who give me advice and believe in me. Regards,Max

Last edited by Maximillyan; 12/12/12 05:35 AM.
Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2007795
01/02/13 02:56 AM
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Happy New Year!!!

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2009017
01/04/13 03:39 PM
01/04/13 03:39 PM
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Too hard to tell via a Youtube video.


For free piano care information visit http://murraypianotuning.com
Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: murrayb1893] #2009275
01/05/13 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by murrayb1893
Too hard to tell via a Youtube video.

Sorry murrayb1893. A message forum for those technicians who are aware of Max from Kazakhstan. He is still trying to do temperament oldest piano.maxim_tuner ready for constructive criticism

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2009362
01/05/13 09:40 AM
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It is said that bad habits gained early on are the hardest to eradicate.

I did detect some improvement with the Yamaha grand but your last video sounded very much like your first.

What happened? You made two steps forward and three steps back.

We honestly can't tell much from your last video because there is not one good unison, some of them worse than your first video.

I can appreciate how the Lord protected you on the Yamaha but there is an ancient saying; "Trust Allah, but tie your camel to a tree".

Make your next video just unisons and octaves and please don't talk. A good tuning shouldn't have to be explained.

Then you will be taken seriously.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #2009952
01/06/13 11:33 AM
01/06/13 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rxd
"Trust Allah, but tie your camel to a tree".
Make your next video just unisons and octaves and please don't talk. A good tuning shouldn't have to be explained.

На Бога надейся, а сам не плошай
dear rxd, I today really listened carefully and agree with you that not clean unisons and octaves some are not perfect. I will try soon to go back and fix it. In this video I play is not the final version. Later I corrected some things, but the camera was not working more than. But thanks again to you for advice.
Regards, Max

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #2012120
01/10/13 07:51 AM
01/10/13 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rxd
please don't talk. A good tuning shouldn't have to be explained.


Dear rxd,await your verdict
Regards, maxim_tuner

Last edited by Maximillyan; 01/10/13 07:55 AM.
Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2012138
01/10/13 08:30 AM
01/10/13 08:30 AM
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Not only is the piano horribly out of tune with itself but unison's are badly out of tune and the piano is way off from pitch too!!! It is at least 1/4 of a tone or more flat of pitch. Plus, the voicing is not good either.



Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2012781
01/11/13 12:55 PM
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Max,

Everything Jerry said applies.

The stage is beautifully dressed and there is some good piano teaching in your area. The whole thing is being let down by the state of the piano.

The piano sounds as though it has potential to be worthy of those young girls who have worked so hard at their playing.

It means going back to basics and that requires self discipline.

I asked you to show me some well tuned unisons. If you give me what I ask for and no more at this stage, we might be able to help you. That, in itself is an excerise in self discipline.

Only by tuning still unisons that stay where you put them can you begin to understand the basics of pin setting. This is extremely important.

Those girls are at a stage where they need their pianos in good condition in order to develop their potemtial as fine musicians. Don't let them down.

Piano tuning and servicing takes practice and is a lifetimes study. You have been sent everything you need to make a fresh start. Step up to the plate and give those people your best.

If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing well.

Practice, practice, practice.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2013080
01/11/13 08:52 PM
01/11/13 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximillyan


Dear rxd,await your verdict
Regards, maxim_tuner
Wow! That was painful! The piano is not in tune. I think some echo and standing waves along with a less than stellar microphone contributed to the pain level, but the thing is pretty bad all on its own.


David L. Jenson
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Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan] #2013103
01/11/13 09:40 PM
01/11/13 09:40 PM
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Vancouver, Canada
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Originally Posted by Maximillyan
Originally Posted by rxd
please don't talk. A good tuning shouldn't have to be explained.


Dear rxd,await your verdict
Regards, maxim_tuner

It sounds pretty good to me, better than the piano that my kids gave their recital on here at some local Univertity, supposedly tuned by a top notch local RPT.

The unisons are quite lively, and I think it sounds good like that. Who wants a static note? Listen to the cantabile section at 11:00: all the beats create a nice texture.

Of course voicing can not be judged from an amateur recording.

Just my musical opinion.

Kees

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: DoelKees] #2013206
01/12/13 04:05 AM
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[/quote]
It sounds pretty good to me, better than the piano that my kids gave their recital on here at some local Univertity, supposedly tuned by a top notch local RPT.

The unisons are quite lively, and I think it sounds good like that. Who wants a static note? Listen to the cantabile section at 11:00: all the beats create a nice texture.

Of course voicing can not be judged from an amateur recording.

Just my musical opinion.

Kees [/quote]

Fascinating.

Kees, You write so eloquently about the mathematical niceties of fine tuning that I find it incongruous you should make the above statement.

I am not criticising your musical taste, acceptance of this style of tuning is very common and I know tuners who make a good lIving tuning this way, I even hired one but I have told that story before. I am not denying that there is a strong profitable market for it. My own stepfather who encouraged my interest in music, while he spent many evenings at the opera and symphony hall, often travelling hundreds of miles to catch an important performance, something I do myself now. He was generous with his time and money toward local music societies and yet he preferred his piano tuned this way or some of the many degrees of it. fortunately, we had our piano tuned 4 times a year by a competent tuner as I was growing up but when I left home, it got neglected and he preferred it that way so I never had to do the obligatory tuning whenever I went home.

The temperament chosen is of almost no consequence in this style of tuning but Max is appealing to us for an assessment of his temperament. We cannot give a
this assessment until the unisons are clean enough for us to make the aural distinctions that seem to only exist on paper to many theoretists, including yourself, as it comes to light.

There is a more refined style of tuning that is the only style found acceptable in major concert halls and sound studios. Its purity is often described as sterility but this is true of many art forms. Only in this purity can a temperament be ascertained.

The vast majority, it appears, cannot recognise the sound of a piano that has been tuned in this refined style. It seems to be an aquired taste.

Questions for anybody....Would you pay for a tuning like Max's on your piano?. Would you know the difference purely by listening?. If you can't hear the difference, is it fair to raise your kids to not know the difference?? (some kids have the acuity of hearing and develop the recognition skills naturally).

Your contribution here is valuable in that it brings this important aspect into focus and I thank you for once again substantiating the wisdom in the quote from Mr. Berra that accompanies all my posts.



Last edited by rxd; 01/12/13 09:59 AM. Reason: Clarity

Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #2013356
01/12/13 10:40 AM
01/12/13 10:40 AM
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Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
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rxd, maybe it also has something to do with the 2 glasses of absinthe I had before listening. Now in the morning it does not sound so good anymore. Also I don't call what they do music, it's more a race to play as many notes as fast and loud as possible, so the tuning doesn't matter. Do you recall the Chopin nocturne and the bar song from the movie "Tombstone"? Exquisitely beautiful in that tuning.

Kees

Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rXd] #2013399
01/12/13 11:53 AM
01/12/13 11:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Originally Posted by rxd

It sounds pretty good to me, better than the piano that my kids gave their recital on here at some local Univertity, supposedly tuned by a top notch local RPT.

The unisons are quite lively, and I think it sounds good like that. Who wants a static note? Listen to the cantabile section at 11:00: all the beats create a nice texture.

Of course voicing can not be judged from an amateur recording.

Just my musical opinion.

Kees [/quote]

Fascinating.

Kees, You write so eloquently about the mathematical niceties of fine tuning that I find it incongruous you should make the above statement.

I am not criticising your musical taste, acceptance of this style of tuning is very common and I know tuners who make a good lIving tuning this way, I even hired one but I have told that story before. I am not denying that there is a strong profitable market for it. My own stepfather who encouraged my interest in music, while he spent many evenings at the opera and symphony hall, often travelling hundreds of miles to catch an important performance, something I do myself now. He was generous with his time and money toward local music societies and yet he preferred his piano tuned this way or some of the many degrees of it. fortunately, we had our piano tuned 4 times a year by a competent tuner as I was growing up but when I left home, it got neglected and he preferred it that way so I never had to do the obligatory tuning whenever I went home.

The temperament chosen is of almost no consequence in this style of tuning but Max is appealing to us for an assessment of his temperament. We cannot give a
this assessment until the unisons are clean enough for us to make the aural distinctions that seem to only exist on paper to many theoretists, including yourself, as it comes to light.

There is a more refined style of tuning that is the only style found acceptable in major concert halls and sound studios. Its purity is often described as sterility but this is true of many art forms. Only in this purity can a temperament be ascertained.

The vast majority, it appears, cannot recognise the sound of a piano that has been tuned in this refined style. It seems to be an aquired taste.

Questions for anybody....Would you pay for a tuning like Max's on your piano?. Would you know the difference purely by listening?. If you can't hear the difference, is it fair to raise your kids to not know the difference?? (some kids have the acuity of hearing and develop the recognition skills naturally).

Your contribution here is valuable in that it brings this important aspect into focus and I thank you for once again substantiating the wisdom in the quote from Mr. Berra that accompanies all my posts.


[/quote]

Nicely written rxd.

I have found over the years and many people here in PW fit into this category, that in many cases, many of the tuners in here can't hear worth a crap. They all claim that they can but when comments such as I like the unisons out of tune come forth and they like it that way; all that tells me is that they cannot get them clean themselves. It also tells me that they are not all that experienced as they lead us to believe with attempting to get clean unisons and, it tells me that they have not had much experience with truly good, concert artists that they, themselves can hear the difference between in and out of tune. Most of which want pure unison's not out of tune ones.

Even with a bad recording, that tuning is easy to hear as is the bad voicing on it.

As for the question would I hire someone like that to tune my piano? Absolutely uquivocally NO WAY! I have a reputation to uphold. smile


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
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