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Hi Alfredo,

Thank you. Hope you have a nice weekend.

Sorry for missed the two questions. Its hard to find out it for the posts are move fast.

For thirds I am not so sure. I may confuse too fast with too slow. Could you post a thirds progression for reference?

I get some hints of hearing fifth: count on the start of move.

Try to correct in the weekend.

Bye.

Hi friends, this is my today's tuning.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-18-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-18-june-2012
D4-F#4 sounds strange. Don'e know how to soft it.
E4-G#4 seems no beat.
C4-E4 too sweet
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-18-june-2012
A3-D4 too fast
B3-E4, C4-F4, D4-G4 too slow
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-18-june-2012
A3-E4, C4-G4, C#4-G#4 Too fast

Raise E4, Correct B3-E4, C4-E4, A3-E4
Raise G4,
Raise G#4

Will try correction tomorrow.

Old Post...

Hi Weiyan,

I've copied the post (below) of mine (10th of June) because, in what I wrote, there is an error. As an exercise, you may re-read it and spot the error.

#1911375 - June 10, 2012 02:56 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: Weiyan]
alfredo capurso Online content

Thank you, Weiyan.

You noticed C#-G# beating, very good. It is beating because it is a very narrow 5th.

You can look at that in two ways:

- G# is too low from just (in pitch); in this case you raise G# closer to almost-just 5th;
- C# is too high from just (in pitch); in this case you lower C# (closer to almost-just 5th);

I noticed the 4th C#-F# non-beating (it is too just): in this case if you lower C# you can adjust (at least) two intervals: C#-G# gets (correct) wide and C#-F# gets less narrow (less beating - closer to just).

Please notice the chain of effect (events?): look at point 2 (A#3-F4), C#-F (as a M3) is Ok; if you lower C# you have to (must) lower also F.

In general, that is what you need to develop in time, the ability to visualize the chain of effects for every move.

In general, evaluate the effect of each move and try to improve (at least) two intervals with one move.

Always ask yourself: what happens (to the other intervals) if I modify this interval? You can do also this exercise (*) in abstract, even reasoning with yourself, without moving anything.

Regards, a.c.

(*) Edit: so doing, you will be able to draw the "intervals relation map".

- . - . - . -

Down to your recent posting,

The base:

A3-A4: too still, it want that to be wider, you want to hear a growing slow movement after 1.5/2 seconds, A3 down or A4 up;
A3-E4: too narrow,
E4-A4: Ok
A3-D4: too close to just (no beat)
D4-A4: too close to just (no movement)

Fifths:

A3-E4: too narrow, check C4-E4… too sweet
(2) A#3-F4: too narrow, check C#-F4… too sweet, make it wider
B3-F#4: nice, check D4-F#4… fast, hmmm… D4 was too low? (see the base)
C4-G4: too narrow, about 2 bps, check D#4-G4… no beating, up G4 you improve two intervals
C#4-G#4: nice, check E4-G#4… no tension… hmmm...
D4-A4: see base, check F4-A4… nice-sweet… up D4 and A4

Forths:

A3-D4: see base, check A#3-C4… sweet, slow, you already know D4 must go up
A#-D#: about 2 bps, check B3-D#4… Ok-little sour, perhaps perhaps D#4 must go down? see above D#4-G4
B3-E4: too just, you already know about E4
C4-F4: too just (no beating), up F4… you repair (2)
C#4-F#4: hmmm… check A3-C#4… nice (almost Ok), check D4-F#4, check C#4-F4, hmmm…
D4-G4: Ok, up D4 and G4
D#4-G#4: inverted?

Yourself-critique:


http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-18-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-18-june-2012
1- D4-F#4 sounds strange. Don'e know how to soft it.
2- E4-G#4 seems no beat.
3- C4-E4 too sweet
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-18-june-2012
4- A3-D4 too fast
5- B3-E4, C4-F4, D4-G4 too slow
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-18-june-2012
6- A3-E4, C4-G4, C#4-G#4 Too fast

Raise E4, Correct B3-E4, C4-E4, A3-E4
Raise G4,
Raise G#4

- . - . - . -

1- you are correct, up D4
2- yes
3- yes
4- non correct
5- Ok, listen again to D4-G4
6- Ok, listen again to C#4-G#4

Very good SC, Weiyan, good job! When ever, listen to your M3 progression and try (exercise) to spot large or "fast-slow-inverted" beat rates.

Have a nice day,a.c.

Hi Alfredo,
Thank you.

I am still learning to hear fast beats. Sometimes confused too slow with too fast.

Left the piano untouched today. Will do the correction tomorrow.

Good night.

Hi,

This is today's tuning session. Correct tempered at wrong side. Improve pin setting.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-20-june-2012
Octave seems too wide. A3-D4 should faster,

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-20-june-2012
A3-C#4 too sweet
C#4-F4 too tense


http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-20-june-2012
C#4-A#4 too fast
Raise C#4, correct A3-C#4, C#4-F4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-20-june-2012
A#3-F4 move too soon
Raise F-4, since A#4 raised, raise F-4 more than A#4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-20-june-2012
Finally tuned some octaves, E3 to A#3, to learn octaves at the same time.

Will finish whole piano tomorrow. Friday visit China no tuning. Hope this weekend has a good sounding piano.

Hi Weiyan,

The base:

A3-A4: Ok- (little too wide) - if you tune little higher than 440 you can always lower A4
A3-D4: too just, (make it close to 1 bps)
D4-A4: inverted?
A3-E4: very good
E4-A4: little wide (due to A4)

Fifths:

A3-E4: see base
A#3-F4: too just (no beat)
B3-F#4: a bit narrow
C4-G4: beating a lot - inverted?
C#4-G#4: too just
D4-A4: different from your base, perhaps something has moved

Thirds:

A3-C#4: slow
A#3-D4: slower than previous, D4 up (see base)
B3-D#4: Ok, sweet, compare with A3-C#4, make it more similar (otherwise the progression is inverted) perhaps B3 is too high?
C4-E4: nice, you want it a little bit faster
C#4-F4: fast, check A#3-F4, put F4 down? put A#3 up?
D4-F#4: nice, check B3-F#4, if you raise D4 you raise also F#4, so D4-F#4 does not change and you improve B3-F#4
D#4-G4: sweet, up G4, improve C4-G4, it was not inverted.
E4-G#4: Ok, put C#4 up
F4-A4: Ok, sweet, perhaps A4 has gone down

Fourths:

A3-D4: see base
A#-D#: too just,
B3-E4: fast
C4-F4: slow
C#4-F#4: fast
D4-G4: a bit fast
D#4-G#4: too just
E4-A4: something has moved

Your S.C.:

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-20-june-2012
1 - Octave seems too wide. A3-D4 should faster,

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-20-june-2012
2 - A3-C#4 too sweet
3 - C#4-F4 too tense

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-20-june-2012
4 - C#4-A#4 too fast
Raise C#4, correct A3-C#4, C#4-F4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-20-june-2012
5 - A#3-F4 move too soon
6 - Raise F-4, since A#4 raised, raise F-4 more than A#4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-20-june-2012
Finally tuned some octaves, E3 to A#3, to learn octaves at the same time.

1 - correct
2 - correct -
3 - yes
4 - yes, perfect
5 - non correct
6 - yes, you meant A#3.

Very good, now you are improving too fast! :-)

Do you have the sequence flow-chart? Now you could start developing and comparing 6ths.

Buona serata,

Alfredo

Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

Issac had send me the tuning procedure. After tuning F#4 from B3, compare sixths as suggest in the chart. I don't know how to use sixths.

This is today's tuning. Need to improve hammer skill. I found its difficult to move a hairy little. Pin setting is still big trouble.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-21-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-21-june-2012
C4-E4 too slow, difficult to correct it.
D#4-G5 seems too slow, not sure.
C#4-F4 should be slower
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-21-june-2012
C4-F4 too fast
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-21-june-2012
C4-G4 too fast

Lower F4, improve C#4-F4, C4-F4
Raise G4, improve C4-G4, D#4-G4(if its too slow)

Good night.

Hi Weiyan,

..."Issac had send me the tuning procedure. After tuning F#4 from B3, compare sixths as suggest in the chart. I don't know how to use sixths."...

I evaluate the first 6th available, A3-F#4, because it tells me (only by my own relative sensation) how the FBI curve is being shaped, how it originates right at the beginning.

I want that 6th to be fast but pleasant, tense but not too nervous, not sour, inspiring-tense, inclined-tense, joy-tense, hope-tense, proposal-tense, encouraging-tense, it must recall proud and best intensions, it must smell like believed-deserved success, like true emotion. Of course, this is what that 6th can evoke me, but you can start understanding what it would evoke you, trying to relate your other senses and your power of abstraction.

From the sequence flowchart you will see that after A#3-F4... I tune G4, obviously from D4; then C4, which has to work all around, as a M3 (C4-E4), as a 5th and 4th. The reason why I do not tune C4 from F4, and G4 from C4, is that I prefer to go back to my base, by using D4 as a reference, in the idea that I can reduce multiple (previous) approximations. It also gives me the feeling of "meeting" F4 while coming from the "other" direction, as that is for me the correct way to shape a whole, two parts that join together.

..."This is today's tuning. Need to improve hammer skill. I found its difficult to move a hairy little. Pin setting is still big trouble."...

I think you are right, hammer skill takes time… for wide intervals, use the forte blow for "hairy little" moves, so you can also stabilize your centre string; for narrow intervals, first get to just (from above), then play a forte blow, so the fifth gets narrow and (hopefully) more stable.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-21-june-2012

A3-A4: nice
A3-D4: little too wide
D4-A4: little too narrow, make it almost no-movement
A3-E4: nice
E4-A4: nice

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-21-june-2012
1 - C4-E4 too slow, difficult to correct it.
2 - D#4-G5 seems too slow, not sure.
3 - C#4-F4 should be slower


Thirds - please notice that progression: Ok-fast // Slow // nice-fast // very slow // fast // nice-slow // nice // nice // slow.

Project: put down A#3, C4, D4, D#4, F4

Your S.C:

1 - see project, I compared C4 4th and 5th;
2 - yes, D#4 is too high (in pitch), make D#4-G5 very similar to E4-A4;
3 - yes, F4 wants to go down

Very good Weiyan, today I have to stop here. In general, start spotting the worse interval, like C4-E4, and relax your ear… I think you can hear a lot now and you need some (physiological) time to settle your perceptions deep down and order your actions. Soon you will be able to compare 6ths too and choose which geometry you want to "play"... then it gets even nicer.

Buona serata,

Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

I tuned C4 from F4, G4 from C4. Will try another way.

Will learn the sense of sixths. I think I can sense thirds and LBIs.

Next week will begin from this tuning. Hope it not move too much in these days playing.


What's this?

Have nice weekend.

Weiyan

Hi Weiyan,

"Buona serata" means "have a nice evening".

良好的星期天, is this Buona domenica? a.c.
.

Good morning,

Today have business so finished tuning this morning. Just correct the notes suggested by Aflredo.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-25-june-2012

良好的星期天, is this Buona domenica? a.c.
This is "Nice Sunday" or "Good Sunday". Chinese seldom use this phrase.

AC# beats very fast and A#D very slow. This is not ET.

Kees

Hi Weiyan,

I could not make it earlier today.

If you like you can compare your thirds 21th June/25th June

A3-C#4: Ok
A#3-D4: improved
B3-D#4: too slow, check A#3-D#4… too just, check B3-F#4, to narrow

C4-E4: improved, make it a little faster,
C#4-F4: improved, it is still a bit sweet
D4-F#4: improved,
D#4-G4: Not improved, a bit salty/sour, check D4-G4… too wide…

E4-G#4: improved progression with F4-A4
F4-A4: improved

Your base (25th june):

A3-A4: Ok (to start with), it is a little wide, you would remember this during your tuning
A3-D4: too wide, if you put down D4, you put down also A#3, check A#3-F… too narrow, so you can put down A#3
D4-A4: Ok, because D4 and A4 are both high (in pitch)
A3-E4: Ok
E4-A4: Ok, little wide, but you remember A4

Evaluate thirds progression: Ok // Slow-sweet // like previous-sweet // sweet // nice // nice // fast // sweet-check C#-G#… up G# // nice.

Project: Put down A#3, B3, C4, D4, up G#, check F4 and remember A4.

Have a nice day, a.c.

Thank you for reminding that two thirds still not tuned.

Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

Bad good luck happened. My phone became brick last Saturday, so I have chance to change for a Windows phone. The computer is infected so I had chance to show off my computer ability to my son. I can tune a piano only two thirds not correct in two weeks intensive learning.

These days had little bit burn out. Will resume practice tomorrow.

Sorry for no birds whistle today.

Hi,

This is today's practice session. Just corrected notes as suggested by Alfred except C4. Had move C4 up and down, finally back to original. Move C4 destroy its relationship with F4 and F5.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-29-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-29-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-29-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-29-june-2012

Thank you.

Hi Weiyan,

About the base, those intervals are very similar to the other recording. This time I try to be more precise:

A3-A4: Ok (to start with), it is a little wide, about 1 beat every 2 sec., get the feeling that it is opening/swelling after 2 sec., no real beating…
A3-D4: too wide, that is about 2 bps, try to make it 1 bps
D4-A4: Ok, because D4 and A4 are both high (in pitch)
A3-E4: Ok... careful because it tends to be too narrow
E4-A4: Ok, little wide, but you remember A4

Thirds progression: // Ok // Slower than previous // improved // too sweet- C4 wants to go down // nice-sweet // nice // improved // improved // nice //.

Fourths:

A3-D4: see base
A#3-D#4: too just, two moves... A#3-D4 is slow, D4 is high so...A#3 must go down, check A#3-F4... too narrow!
B3-E4: Ok-little fast
C4-F4: slow… C4 can go down?… check C4-G4… too narrow, put down C4 improving also C3-E3
C#4-F#4: Ok
D4-G4: too just, D4 down
D#4-G#4: too fast, D#4 up, in direction of A#3-D#4
E4-A4: Ok, see base… A4 down a bit

In the next days I'll be traveling for work, so we will have to wait for sometime. In the meantime, enlarge your mid-octave and develop your ear for no-beating 12ths, the first being A3-E5. Make octaves very very similar, they do open "more", chromatically progressive, but... very very slowly. Make sure that intervals are on the right side, and do not rush with your hammer, first focalize on the beat, then move your hammer.

You are doing well (in a short time); work "in time" Weiyan, and enjoy your breathing and your sounds.

Best wishes,

Alfredo

Hi Alfredo,

Hope you have a success business trip.

I think I understand the octave more now. The higher partial appear after a short while, may be 1.5 - 2 seconds.

Its happy to go to the beatless 12th. Its a new challenge.

Thank you.

Sorry for making Alfredo busy enough. He's in business trip now.

This is today's practice. Retuned whole piano and rasied 10 cents. May be its too hot that the pitch dropped.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-4-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-4-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-4-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-4-july-2012

Thank you.

Still practicing.

The octave may be little bit wider.

Tune the 12th pure. The mistake in temperament is reflected in octave when a note cannot tune pure 12th.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-10-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-10-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-10-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-10-july-2012

Thank you.