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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: John Dickinson] #1915472
06/18/12 10:43 PM
06/18/12 10:43 PM
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Posts: 365
Brisbane, QLD
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DadAgain Offline
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I used to use:
Green Buses Drive Fast Always
or
Every Green Bus Drives Fast.


Interestingly enough my daughter was complaining about her teacher at school who keeps getting them to learn various acronyms to 'aid memory'.

Daughter was struggling to remember the sentence:
"My Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming Planets" - but eventually gave up and declared - "I've worked out how to remember it - just remember "Mercury-Venus-Earth-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune-Pluto" - and from there its eays to remember what order the words in the sentence are supposed to be!

Somewhere along the line - someone got mixed about which was the 'dificult' bit to remember! laugh


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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: DadAgain] #1915482
06/18/12 11:14 PM
06/18/12 11:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Canada
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Originally Posted by DadAgain

Daughter was struggling to remember the sentence:
"My Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming Planets" - but eventually gave up and declared - "I've worked out how to remember it - just remember "Mercury-Venus-Earth-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune-Pluto" - and from there its eays to remember what order the words in the sentence are supposed to be!

Somewhere along the line - someone got mixed about which was the 'difficult' bit to remember! laugh

The teacher? laugh

We didn't have music in school as such, other than Christmas songs in December and that kind of thing. But in some grade somebody gave this Every Good Boy. I couldn't do anything with it. I learned note names some 30 years later and in the meantime read music in some weird way. Well, in my early 50's I decided to learn theory, and was surprised how easy it was. ABCDEFG... alphabet. Plus each note name represented a sound and a place on the piano. So why did we have to remember about boys and fudge? Why did they make it so hard? If someone tells you the name of eggs, do you have to think about elephants to remember eggs? And what if you try to remember elephant and come up with hippopotamus because it's large too? That's what it was like for me. These things have never worked for me.

Ee Gee Bee Dee Eff (EGBDF) is easy to remember, and it can help me remember about the boys and fudge. Patterns are also useful. For example, the order of sharps is FCGDAEB which is the reverse order of BEADGCF. If you know that three sharps gives you A major, then you also know your third sharp, which is a semitone below A, which is G#. These things are much more real for me. It's how my mind works.

Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: DadAgain] #1915520
06/19/12 12:45 AM
06/19/12 12:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
Nashville, TN
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Brian Lucas Offline
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Originally Posted by DadAgain
Interestingly enough my daughter was complaining about her teacher at school who keeps getting them to learn various acronyms to 'aid memory'.

Daughter was struggling to remember the sentence:
"My Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming Planets" - but eventually gave up and declared - "I've worked out how to remember it - just remember "Mercury-Venus-Earth-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune-Pluto" - and from there its eays to remember what order the words in the sentence are supposed to be!
That is hysterical! And I believe helps to prove my point. Plus, you have to remember what saying goes with what clef. I know everyone learns differently, but I think it's easier to know where a couple of anchor notes are and associate the rest of the notes around those. Kind of like learning roads in a neighborhood. It's not Random Street, it's "the street after Main Street". All those sayings just slow things down.

I'm curious what teachers who teach acronyms do about ledger lines. More sayings? Count from the last line?


-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: piano_deb] #1915650
06/19/12 10:06 AM
06/19/12 10:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,239
Maine
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PianoStudent88 Offline
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I find acronyms easy, and learned the clefs with them.

Great Big Dreams For America
All Cows Eat Grass
Every Good Boy Does Fine
FACE

The rap on acronyms that I read about is that it slows people down because they have to stop and count up from the bottom. It didn't slow me down -- they were a tool to learn the lines and spaces, and then I left them behind. It is curious to me that these acronyms are used rather than just learning a key note or two on the staff and then using ordinary alphabetic order ABCDEFG to find the other notes. Again, though, only as a way of ultimately knowing every line and space for itself, without having to relate it to another note first. If I were teaching piano, I probably wouldn't use acronyms because they do seem to be in disrepute. But I don't think they harmed me.

Ledger lines I learned just as notes, without acronyms, slowly learning them one by one, extending out from the staff. Up to about four ledger lines I can now recognize at once, without having to count out. I credit flute playing, which uses ledger lines above the treble clef a lot, with starting me on the path to being friends with ledger lines.

One acronym used for ledger lines is ACE, which works for the three ledger lines below the bass clef and the three above the treble clef, so for some people that can be a useful shared pattern to learn.

Order of flats I just made up for myself BEADGCF as a word (pronounced BeedGuhCuf) that I observed from the pattern as I was learning scales. Then I spell it backwards if I have to go the other way for sharps. Eventually I learned the Circle of Fifths cold without having to think of the word, but that was YEARS later.


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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: PianoStudent88] #1915681
06/19/12 11:06 AM
06/19/12 11:06 AM
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Posts: 384
Nottingham, U.K.
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I don`t see the purpose of such acronyms. Linking a note on the page to a letter and THEN from a letter to the actual key on the piano is pointless isn`t it? Who needs to shout out the name of a key in a hurry?

edit: acronyms...I guess I mean mnemonics...

Last edited by Fraggle; 06/19/12 11:06 AM.

Will
Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: piano_deb] #1915700
06/19/12 11:39 AM
06/19/12 11:39 AM
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Posts: 4,239
Maine
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PianoStudent88 Offline
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I find it useful to know the names of notes because it helps make what's on the page concrete. It's not solely "this note here, and then this note here, and then this far away note." Rather, for me, the names of the notes come for free along with all the other information on the score.


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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: piano_deb] #1915707
06/19/12 11:55 AM
06/19/12 11:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 384
Nottingham, U.K.
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Fraggle Offline
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Know them yes but I don`t see it as important enough to warrant special attention - particuarly as the notes are in alphabetical order! In my opinion a reflexive connection between stave and finger is more worthy of the effort...


Will
Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: piano_deb] #1915793
06/19/12 02:38 PM
06/19/12 02:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 787
Memphis, TN
piano_deb Offline OP
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Memphis, TN
Well, this is fascinating ... I hadn't thought about there being more than the first four acronyms/mnemonics to learn the grand staff. My head is spinning a bit.


Deborah
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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: piano_deb] #1915808
06/19/12 03:41 PM
06/19/12 03:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
Nashville, TN
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Brian Lucas Offline
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I don't think they're harmful, just not that effective. I'm hoping to change the way notes are taught. What I've been doing for over a decade now is teaching 9 what I call target notes. They are 5 C's (including the ones on 2 ledger lines above and below the grand staff), and the 4 G's. Once a student knows where these 9 notes are, they can relate all the rest of the notes around those. Like Fraggle said, the notes are alphabetical. So if you know where C is, B and D are right below and above that. Every other note is next to one of those target notes (except E which is 2 away). It's also the concept of stepping and skipping to notes (line to space vs. line to line). Kind of early interval training. I can often get a student to play through 30 or so flash cards in just a few weeks.

If you can't read very well, try focusing on where the C's and G's are for a week or so. Get to where you know them instinctively (you probably already know middle C this well). Let me know if that helps your ability to read at all. For folks like Deborah, I try to minimize the head spinning as much as possible.


-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
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Re: GBDFA, GBDFA, FACE, ACEG ... What are your favorite acroyms? [Re: Brian Lucas] #1915822
06/19/12 04:15 PM
06/19/12 04:15 PM
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Posts: 384
Nottingham, U.K.
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My instinct tells me that an exercise like: Thumb on middle c, produce flash card showing an above/below-the-staff note, smoothly strike the note with the pinkie. Even in time with a metronome maybe, sounds effective.


Will
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