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East West Pianos clicks and pops #1911942
06/11/12 01:55 PM
06/11/12 01:55 PM
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pianojohnw Offline OP
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Im having this clicking/pop noise with east west pianos on exported audio and in playback in Cubase 5. Heres an example of the problem its exactly the same sounding problem as I have got when I export audio from east west pianos. http://www.jeffnortham.com/mp3/pops.mp3

How do I get rid of this problem ive tried raising my asio buffer size and this makes no difference at all :-(

Last edited by pianojohnw; 06/11/12 01:57 PM.

I am a self taught piano player who has been playing the piano for 4 years, I love piano and love composing new music :-D
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Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912065
06/11/12 07:14 PM
06/11/12 07:14 PM
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I'll have a listen later, but in the meantime, investigate offline rendering. If you get that to work, you should never experience glitches during export due to performance issues. EWQLP seems to support offline rendering in my DAW (Ableton Live)

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 06/11/12 07:15 PM.

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Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912354
06/12/12 11:47 AM
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pianojohnw Offline OP
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I have tried offline rendering it makes no difference im still getting these clickc in exported audio


I am a self taught piano player who has been playing the piano for 4 years, I love piano and love composing new music :-D
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912454
06/12/12 04:46 PM
06/12/12 04:46 PM
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It's strange that you should get pops and clicks in the 'rendered'/exported audio.

I wonder if the issue is actually with the audio playback?

Have you tried loading the exported audio (presumably WAV?) into an audio editor, then zooming into the wave form to check if there are indeed glitches in the audio file? If not, but you can still hear the clicks, I would suggest that the issue is with your computer's audio playback.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912574
06/12/12 10:41 PM
06/12/12 10:41 PM
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I can hear the clicks in that recording so the problem is not with the playback.

There have been clicks and other artifacts in the EWQLP samples but I can't remember it ever being that bad. (I mostly use the Bosendorfer and Bechstein though).

Can you hear the same clicking when you just play it live, either inside Cubase, or standalone?

Also, try to come up with the simplest way possible to reproduce the clicks. (e.g, if you can make it click just playing a single note, that would help to narrow it down). Try to determine whether the clicks happen at exactly the same points in each seperate export of the same MIDI recording, too.

There's no obvious sign of clipping (overdriving) in that recording but it could still be something clipping in the signal chain inside Cubase I suppose.

Have you contacted EWQLP support yet?

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 06/12/12 10:43 PM.

Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: sullivang] #1912582
06/12/12 10:49 PM
06/12/12 10:49 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I can hear the clicks in that recording so the problem is not with the playback.


Okay. I confess that I didn't actually listen to the recording posted above.

Is it possible that the harddrive is being taxed too much - trying to stream samples while also writing the uncompressed (?) WAV to disc at the same time?

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912586
06/12/12 10:54 PM
06/12/12 10:54 PM
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I can hear some quiet pops between 20 and 24 seconds. That's what you are referring to, right? This means it's not his output device. At first I thought it might be clipping because it happens on the loudest notes in that range, but there are plenty of louder ones later that do not click, so I guess that idea's out.

In that range the pops are all associated with the same note, I believe? Perhaps that note has a bum recording for a few velocity layers?

Try and pin down a reproducible way of getting it. Perhaps create a MIDI file that generates pops every time it's rendered and we can maybe find someone else with EWQL to run it through and see if they get the same result.

You didn't say, but I assume you hear similar pops when you are playing live and not saving to disk, right?

Last edited by gvfarns; 06/12/12 10:56 PM.
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: Kawai James] #1912589
06/12/12 10:59 PM
06/12/12 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

Is it possible that the harddrive is being taxed too much - trying to stream samples while also writing the uncompressed (?) WAV to disc at the same time?


No, not if the offline rendering is working properly. ;^) Offline rendering produces perfect audio regardless of how the system is performing. (if it's not working for some reason, then yes, that kind of problem could be occurring).

If there's a "real time render" option, try that. This will play back the performance at the normal speed (1X), as if it were simply being recorded whilst playing live. If that works, it could be a sign that the offline render is actually not working "offline". (I don't think I have this option in Live Lite)

Quote

Im having this clicking/pop noise with east west pianos on exported audio and in playback in Cubase 5.


Does this mean that if you have your MIDI track in Cubase, and then simply press "play" (using EWQLP for the instrument for that MIDI), you still hear glitches?

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 06/12/12 11:02 PM.

Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: sullivang] #1912957
06/13/12 03:33 PM
06/13/12 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I can hear the clicks in that recording so the problem is not with the playback.

There have been clicks and other artifacts in the EWQLP samples but I can't remember it ever being that bad. (I mostly use the Bosendorfer and Bechstein though).

Can you hear the same clicking when you just play it live, either inside Cubase, or standalone?

Also, try to come up with the simplest way possible to reproduce the clicks. (e.g, if you can make it click just playing a single note, that would help to narrow it down). Try to determine whether the clicks happen at exactly the same points in each seperate export of the same MIDI recording, too.

There's no obvious sign of clipping (overdriving) in that recording but it could still be something clipping in the signal chain inside Cubase I suppose.

Have you contacted EWQLP support yet?

Greg.


Hey yes I hear it in playback in cubase ive not really tried it in standalone but will test in abit and report back here, yes ive contacted East West support but there useless and are just not replying to me.


I am a self taught piano player who has been playing the piano for 4 years, I love piano and love composing new music :-D
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: Kawai James] #1912958
06/13/12 03:33 PM
06/13/12 03:33 PM
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pianojohnw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by sullivang
I can hear the clicks in that recording so the problem is not with the playback.


Okay. I confess that I didn't actually listen to the recording posted above.

Is it possible that the harddrive is being taxed too much - trying to stream samples while also writing the uncompressed (?) WAV to disc at the same time?

James
x


No I dont think it is the HDD ive tried it on an ssd and an hdd and its doing the same


I am a self taught piano player who has been playing the piano for 4 years, I love piano and love composing new music :-D
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: sullivang] #1912960
06/13/12 03:36 PM
06/13/12 03:36 PM
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pianojohnw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Originally Posted by Kawai James

Is it possible that the harddrive is being taxed too much - trying to stream samples while also writing the uncompressed (?) WAV to disc at the same time?


No, not if the offline rendering is working properly. ;^) Offline rendering produces perfect audio regardless of how the system is performing. (if it's not working for some reason, then yes, that kind of problem could be occurring).

If there's a "real time render" option, try that. This will play back the performance at the normal speed (1X), as if it were simply being recorded whilst playing live. If that works, it could be a sign that the offline render is actually not working "offline". (I don't think I have this option in Live Lite)

Quote

Im having this clicking/pop noise with east west pianos on exported audio and in playback in Cubase 5.


Does this mean that if you have your MIDI track in Cubase, and then simply press "play" (using EWQLP for the instrument for that MIDI), you still hear glitches?

Greg.


Ive tried real time rendering but still get clicks, yes when I have my midi track in cubase and click play I hear these clicks.


I am a self taught piano player who has been playing the piano for 4 years, I love piano and love composing new music :-D
Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912981
06/13/12 04:03 PM
06/13/12 04:03 PM
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ando Online content
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Those kind of clicks are usually CPU overload in my experience. Try shutting down as many background processes as you can and see if that changes things. Does the East West program have a CPU meter in it somewhere?

Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1912997
06/13/12 04:33 PM
06/13/12 04:33 PM
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Note that if it is CPU overload, that means the offline render isn't actually rendering offline.


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Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1913191
06/13/12 11:17 PM
06/13/12 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pianojohnw
I have tried offline rendering it makes no difference im still getting these clickc in exported audio


Good chance one or more of the sample files is corrupted. I've have this problem but not so bad. What I did to prove it was to play the file in an audio editor. It was an MP3 file and shue enough there is missing data in the file.

If this is the case then yo get the "pop" every time you play that note at that velocity.

This can't be a real-time data dropout like you would get if you had a to a small buffer.

Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1913200
06/13/12 11:46 PM
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You know, I'm not sure cubase and other vst hosts really do render offline. I've always assumed that because it just seems so reasonable, but I could imagine a software design where the two programs are so separate that a blip in the player (caused by CPU overload) could be picked up and saved by the other.

That's definitely not the way PianoTeq works, but cubase/Kontakt? Not so sure. I'd be interested if someone knows that this is untrue. I guess I could test it by stressing my processor and trying to render at the same time...

Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1913212
06/14/12 12:01 AM
06/14/12 12:01 AM
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At the very least I think you'd want to be monitoring your CPU activity in various situations to determine whether that is an avenue worth pursuing.

Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1913261
06/14/12 02:14 AM
06/14/12 02:14 AM
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Ok, if for some reason offline isn't working, then you should definitely be rendering in real time, and regarding CPU, make sure speed throttling is disabled. Don't just select a "high performance" power profile - actually go into the settings for the power profile and make absolutely sure that the minimum and maximum CPU speeds are set to 100%.

I did some testing to satisfy myself that EWQLP supports offline rendering in Ableton Live. In fact, initially it was not working, but after an upgrade of Live, it began to work. Nevertheless, I can't say for sure that it's working - all I can say is that in my testing, I could not induce dropouts by doing things such as increasing polyphony, feeding it a busy MIDI file, and also enabling CPU speed throttling.

Greg.


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Re: East West Pianos clicks and pops [Re: pianojohnw] #1913292
06/14/12 03:53 AM
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Have you tried with another VST? Maybe a trial of Pianoteq if you own no other. At least that would probably show the issue is with EWQLP.


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