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Re: Steinways from China #191040
06/12/08 02:15 AM
06/12/08 02:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
T
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Quote
Originally posted by KawaiDon:
Quote
Originally posted by PianoPro:
[b] What did they design? I'm just asking for proof.
PP,

I have seen the scale drawings which Steinway submitted to Kawai. They were made by engineers employed by Steinway, which means that Steinway designed the pianos.

Enough. [/b]
wink If my employer were holding the long-term private label contract to manufacture thousands and thousands of pianos for Steinway at significant marginal profit and resulting in a material improvement in fixed cost utilization, I would also tow the company line in order to protect the business relationship and keep the agreed-to, public story straight.

It is, however, a fascinating new definition of what it means to "design". Bravo.

All Kawai purchasers should be thankful for Kawai's contract with Steinway to produce their Boston line as this in turn helps to keep the cost of Kawai's instruments down.

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Re: Steinways from China #191041
06/12/08 09:28 AM
06/12/08 09:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,789
Central TX
B
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bitWrangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,789
Central TX
Sheesh, lets nit pick this to death why don't we. So fine, maybe Del (or some other person) was contracted by Steinway "design" the scale. It's then still Steinway's design, just as it is usual for any works created by a contractor to belong to the contractee (unless other terms were negotiated). So unless someone has proof otherwise, it sounds like the Bostons are not the same as the other Kawai models, and isn't that the bottom line?

Re: Steinways from China #191042
06/12/08 12:35 PM
06/12/08 12:35 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 51
Singapore
macdoc Offline
Full Member
macdoc  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 51
Singapore
Is a Lexus a Toyota?

Is a Volkswagen a Porsche?

Some people who travels on the same plane flown by the same company do enjoys a different experience in First Class. Me, I say, pay and get a Steinway. Or get a second hand. Or get something else designed/made to specs/second line/outsourced/smell-of/sounds like/whatever related to a Steinway.

Am not saying that I prefer a Porsche to a VW. Or a Lexus to a Toyota. I don't drive any of the mentioned brands. Nor have I ever bought a Steinway or anything related to a Steinway. Nor do I have any intentions to.

I'd rather buy something else more original with greater pride in their products.

Re: Steinways from China #191043
06/12/08 12:40 PM
06/12/08 12:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
S
suzanneclarke23 Offline
Junior Member
suzanneclarke23  Offline
Junior Member
S

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
If I were you I'd take a look at Hailun pianos!

Re: Steinways from China #191044
06/12/08 02:36 PM
06/12/08 02:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,789
Central TX
B
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bitWrangler  Offline
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B

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,789
Central TX
Quote
Originally posted by macdoc:
Is a Lexus a Toyota?

Is a Volkswagen a Porsche?

Some people who travels on the same plane flown by the same company do enjoys a different experience in First Class. Me, I say, pay and get a Steinway. Or get a second hand. Or get something else designed/made to specs/second line/outsourced/smell-of/sounds like/whatever related to a Steinway.

Am not saying that I prefer a Porsche to a VW. Or a Lexus to a Toyota. I don't drive any of the mentioned brands. Nor have I ever bought a Steinway or anything related to a Steinway. Nor do I have any intentions to.

I'd rather buy something else more original with greater pride in their products.
Careful with your car analogies. In some cases a Lexus IS the same as a Toyota (e.g. Lexus IS300 == Toyota Altezza), or at least was (don't know if the current Lexus models have any Toyota badged twins).

Re: Steinways from China #191045
06/12/08 04:02 PM
06/12/08 04:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 659
Northeast
K
Kenny Blankenship Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kenny Blankenship  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 659
Northeast
Yeah, check out the Hailuns, stay away from "grey market" Steinways.....


Kenny Blankenship
Selling anything anyone will buy as the "Walmartizisation of the industry continues. (Still making a fair living and still having clients like me)
Re: Steinways from China #191046
06/12/08 04:55 PM
06/12/08 04:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Marty in Minnesota  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
I just love the "grey market" Steinways. If I have heard correctly, there is a whole ship-load of them, fresh from Bolivia, or is it Bolivonia, that have been especially "seasoned" for the American market.

I can't wait to try the Steinway Q. That it the 9'-28" puppy that everyone wants to try. Rumor has it, though I can't confirm, that it was designed by Notaway t'Comparessohn while sitting on the side of Everest in Tibet. He then went to China to have the instrument regulated. We all know that the regulations in China are very strict.

This thread has become too absurd, even for me. When Lexus, Toyota, VW and BMW are delivered with 88 playable keys, it might be of more use.


Marty in Minnesota
Re: Steinways from China #191047
06/13/08 05:33 AM
06/13/08 05:33 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 51
Singapore
macdoc Offline
Full Member
macdoc  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 51
Singapore
Quote
Originally posted by Marty_2:
...... have been especially "seasoned" for the American market.

..... When Lexus, Toyota, VW and BMW are delivered with 88 playable keys, it might be of more use.
Yupe you got it right. For YEARS there were factories making Lexuses for the US market in Japan. They even sell "grey" Lexuses in Japan, only they don't call them Lexuses. Instead the very similar products were labeled "Toyota", e.g. Lexus RX300 for Americans and Toyota Harrier for Japanese. And the Americans pay more coz theirs were the REAL stuff whereas the Japs only got grey market re-labeled products though designed by the same people ....... Everyone happy, Americans wishing to pay more for brand and Japs getting a decent bargain with equivalent quality products .....

Oh .... if you really want it, there are dealerships in China who are more than willing to GIVE you a Pearl River piano complete with 88 playable keys when you buy a BMW 7 series from them in China ...... you think this is absurd smile Really, really absurd laugh ?

Try it ...... :p

Re: Steinways from China #191048
06/13/08 07:17 AM
06/13/08 07:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Marty in Minnesota  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
I would never consider buying a BMW in China unless it came with a genuine, stencil Moon River, with the sound board autographed by Andy Williams, the chief designer, himself. He also designed the Steinway & Datsun Z which was built in the Nissanovich plant in Etheopia. They are very hard to find and my sources tell me that you can only find them in the Southern Polar Regions.

It is so much easier to go to Branson, MO and get the free car and free buffet when you are enraptured by a Moon River!

OK - I'm going with absurd. But, it goes along with the concept of Steinways from China.

With tongue firmly planted in cheek, I am,


Marty in Minnesota
Re: Steinways from China #191049
06/13/08 09:40 AM
06/13/08 09:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 634
J
JDelmore Offline
500 Post Club Member
JDelmore  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 634
Quote
Originally posted by Marty_2:
[QB] or is it Bolivonia, that have been especially "seasoned" for the American market.

I think it was "Blovionia"...


PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)
Re: Steinways from China #191050
06/18/08 02:42 PM
06/18/08 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 68
L
L1037 Offline
Full Member
L1037  Offline
Full Member
L

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 68
Lexus is the luxury division of Toyota. They have their own factories, workers, and dealers. I learned this from a Lexus salesman. (My parents both have Lexus')

Sorry to get a little of topic but I don't think the Lexus-Toyota & Steinway-Boston/Essex relationship is very comparable.


As a wise man once sung, "and more, much more than this, I did it my way."
Re: Steinways from China #191051
06/19/08 08:35 AM
06/19/08 08:35 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 51
Singapore
macdoc Offline
Full Member
macdoc  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 51
Singapore
Steinway maybe the luxury division of Boston/Essex. They may have their own factories, workers, and dealers.

The Lexus-Toyota & Steinway-Boston/Essex relationship is probably not comparable.

Re: Steinways from China #191052
06/19/08 09:45 AM
06/19/08 09:45 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,942
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,942
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Quote
Originally posted by SCCDoug:
However, it is instructive that one of the largest piano manufacturers in the world felt it necessary to look outside the company to get this work done.
Perhaps they found it "best" as opposed to "necessary". After all the Baltimore Knabe scale design was very good.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Steinways from China #191053
06/19/08 10:09 PM
06/19/08 10:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11
Detroit
Joe_in_Detroit Offline
Junior Member
Joe_in_Detroit  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11
Detroit
"why there is such emotion on this topic."
Emotion about music and politics? Who would have guessed?


www.4tepiano.com
Steinway's for less.
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