Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Steinways from China

Obviously, this needs to be repeated. Thanks, Don.

Can we frame this somewhere and keep it handy for reference?


Sophia

In this era of outsourcing it may be necessary to expand the definition of "to design" to include some version of "to accept ultimate responsibility for."

bitWrangler, in an earlier thread Rich Galassini paraphrased Don Mannino to the effect that there was a lot of ebb and flow between Steinway and Kawai during the design process. In that context, the things that you mentioned re Kawai's manufacturing expertise make perfect sense.

Gee, if people didn't get their knickers in such a twist over a name...what's wrong with letting the piano speak for itself?

And I find it quite presumptuous to suggest that Steinway & Sons is incapable of designing a piano.

It would be hard for me to imagine a realy fine pianist wanting to play on a certain piano because of who "designed" it. Or not.

If you are talking about the Essex piano, they are in my opinion very good pianos. I happen to have an Essex piano. I think you'd be surprised with the nice sound from the Essex piano. The Essex upright pianos are actually made in Korea in the Pearl River factory. Lastly, people can believe what ever they want, but these pianos are really designed by Steinway & Sons and inspected by a Steinway & Sons tech. They are manufactured in the Pearl River/Young Chang factory. The Essex grands are made the Young Chang factory.

Best of luck finding your new piano!

Your comment reminds me of the Pramberger brand's marketing angle (and to a lesser extent, Hailun's Emerson/Shigeru/Paulello angle and Wm. Knabe's "Baltimore scale" angle for certain specific model).

Those are "innocents"

When established marques like Steinway are building lower lines and then try to add their own angle in marketing them - be they right or wrong - things change.

IMHO.

Norbert

The Knabe's are a case in point of the complexity of this issue of who designed what. The design of 5'8" and 6'4" are to a point reflective of the original Blatimore scaling - the gentleman who did the design work is a local and has lectured at our University on this topic, as well as at PTG conferences. So as far as it goes the Samick marketing 'angle' is real enough. However, it is instructive that one of the largest piano manufacturers in the world felt it necessary to look outside the company to get this work done.

I think that it would be a fair assumption that the Steinway asian offerings were likely "designed" by a freelance designer that was at the time under contract to Steinway. In this way the claim might be legally valid. My question is why do they need an on-staff designer, when they haven't produced any genuinely new designs in nearly 80 years. No company keeps on staff, workers that have no day to day purpose. There just are NOT a limitless supply of these designers on the planet these days as there likely were 100+ years ago. I have a friend that applied to Baldwin some years ago. He had recently gotten an engineering degree. They told him flat out, they didn't need any designers on staff, as they already "make the best pianos in the world. " There is of course a certain level of hubris going on, but the comment is telling. The SF's and SD's are mid 1960's designs, much newer than anything S&S offers today as an example.

I'm all for the piano being evaluated on its own merits, but unlike the original S&S designs, the purpose of the present offshore offerings is to satisfy a pricepoint. Like any other commodity, it will do that, but at a cost to the end user in one way or the other. Steinway in no way wants these competing with its core sales. It merely wants something inexpensive with which to compete with other local piano emporiums locally offering inexpensive pianos. There are no free lunches to be had!

If Del is awake, maybe he can enlighten us as to how many bonafide designers there are on the planet today and whether these folks hold "staff" positions.

John, I think it was Rich Galassini who speculated that that outside consultant was Del Fandrich.

If my employer were holding the long-term private label contract to manufacture thousands and thousands of pianos for Steinway at significant marginal profit and resulting in a material improvement in fixed cost utilization, I would also tow the company line in order to protect the business relationship and keep the agreed-to, public story straight.

It is, however, a fascinating new definition of what it means to "design". Bravo.

All Kawai purchasers should be thankful for Kawai's contract with Steinway to produce their Boston line as this in turn helps to keep the cost of Kawai's instruments down.

Sheesh, lets nit pick this to death why don't we. So fine, maybe Del (or some other person) was contracted by Steinway "design" the scale. It's then still Steinway's design, just as it is usual for any works created by a contractor to belong to the contractee (unless other terms were negotiated). So unless someone has proof otherwise, it sounds like the Bostons are not the same as the other Kawai models, and isn't that the bottom line?

Is a Lexus a Toyota?

Is a Volkswagen a Porsche?

Some people who travels on the same plane flown by the same company do enjoys a different experience in First Class. Me, I say, pay and get a Steinway. Or get a second hand. Or get something else designed/made to specs/second line/outsourced/smell-of/sounds like/whatever related to a Steinway.

Am not saying that I prefer a Porsche to a VW. Or a Lexus to a Toyota. I don't drive any of the mentioned brands. Nor have I ever bought a Steinway or anything related to a Steinway. Nor do I have any intentions to.

I'd rather buy something else more original with greater pride in their products.

If I were you I'd take a look at Hailun pianos!

Careful with your car analogies. In some cases a Lexus IS the same as a Toyota (e.g. Lexus IS300 == Toyota Altezza), or at least was (don't know if the current Lexus models have any Toyota badged twins).

Yeah, check out the Hailuns, stay away from "grey market" Steinways.....

I just love the "grey market" Steinways. If I have heard correctly, there is a whole ship-load of them, fresh from Bolivia, or is it Bolivonia, that have been especially "seasoned" for the American market.

I can't wait to try the Steinway Q. That it the 9'-28" puppy that everyone wants to try. Rumor has it, though I can't confirm, that it was designed by Notaway t'Comparessohn while sitting on the side of Everest in Tibet. He then went to China to have the instrument regulated. We all know that the regulations in China are very strict.

This thread has become too absurd, even for me. When Lexus, Toyota, VW and BMW are delivered with 88 playable keys, it might be of more use.

Yupe you got it right. For YEARS there were factories making Lexuses for the US market in Japan. They even sell "grey" Lexuses in Japan, only they don't call them Lexuses. Instead the very similar products were labeled "Toyota", e.g. Lexus RX300 for Americans and Toyota Harrier for Japanese. And the Americans pay more coz theirs were the REAL stuff whereas the Japs only got grey market re-labeled products though designed by the same people ....... Everyone happy, Americans wishing to pay more for brand and Japs getting a decent bargain with equivalent quality products .....

Oh .... if you really want it, there are dealerships in China who are more than willing to GIVE you a Pearl River piano complete with 88 playable keys when you buy a BMW 7 series from them in China ...... you think this is absurd Really, really absurd ?

Try it ...... :p

I would never consider buying a BMW in China unless it came with a genuine, stencil Moon River, with the sound board autographed by Andy Williams, the chief designer, himself. He also designed the Steinway & Datsun Z which was built in the Nissanovich plant in Etheopia. They are very hard to find and my sources tell me that you can only find them in the Southern Polar Regions.

It is so much easier to go to Branson, MO and get the free car and free buffet when you are enraptured by a Moon River!

OK - I'm going with absurd. But, it goes along with the concept of Steinways from China.

With tongue firmly planted in cheek, I am,

I think it was "Blovionia"...