Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Non-Rant - EBVT vs ET - Civillian Pianist

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I do not understand what you mean by that. Do you expect me to lower my standards? That may be all right for you, but it is not for me.

[quote If you are given a certain amount of time to tune a piano which was supposed to be tuned before delivery, as often happens to me, there is nothing worse than to find it had been tuned in some way it was not supposed to be tuned. I have had that happen to me, and it was no fun. [/quote]

If you run into a Mean Tone, you would have a fairly unstable situation. However, 1-4 cents change scattered around an octave, (some up, some down, so the overall tension isn't skewed) has never introduced any more instability in my tuning than staying at the same temperament.

If you are tuning a piano from a Victorian era WT, (as in no notes more than 4 cents away from ET), there should be no problem switching temperaments. I've done it innumerable times, going the other way.
And it is easy to see one reason for some tuners' reluctance in introducing a customer to WT. It brings a lot of focus on the tuning. It asks the customer to listen more closely than normal. It makes every unison and octave liable to be examined by someone looking for something.
It is scrutiny, I tell ya. Keeps one on their toes, putting the bright light on the tuning. Not for the timid, for sure.
Regards,
Regards,

Hi Kees,

What is it that you do not understand?

Kees

From what I have seen you write, I thought you understood everything. What are your standards?

I've been following the various "discussions" about ET and EBVT for some time now and can see valid points of those on both sides of the temperament fence.

Theory and mathematical explanations are nice but I've simply decided to get my piano tuned to EBVT3 in my upcoming tuning and play on that for a while to see how it sounds to me personally.

I may notice a difference, I may not notice a difference, or I may only sometimes notice a difference, but I'm definitely interested in taking it out for a test run.

If I decide that I don't like it then no biggie, I'll just get my tuner to set me back to ET for the next tuning.
If it really irritates me I'll just get him to do it that much sooner.
Either way he'll get paid twice and I'll have a freshly tuned piano each time.

A piano tuning doesn't cost much really and since I started out playing early analog synthesizers I'm used to experimenting with radically different sounds so a slightly different temperament will not freak me out and it will be nice to be able to experience a bit of variation with my grand for a change.

I'm looking forward to it.

Oh WOW!!! Somebody in Emmery's area wants their piano tuned in the EBVT!!! This is truly unprecedented! I have never known an advertising campaign to be so effective!

The reports I had is that part of it is good and part of it irritating

On a piano like yours ( does it have a plain wood soundbord) you may be limited in spectra richness so only a much inspired tuner may help. Did you record your piano ?

To me. The use of the even beating of 12 & 15 is what differs from most usual et stretchs, and provide a stronger consonance than octave based stretch.

It helps then to open the unisons . That 12 15 ratio is the strongest theoretical concept find in piano tuning lately, while. Many where yet using it partly.


But talking about stability, good to you if you can pay for tunings often, most of my customers prefer some maintenance and tunings less often. 6 months for the ones that play. A lot, but way less once the instrument is. Stable for many of them.

I recently had a brief discussion with a RPT about tuning a "new" Shigeru to a non-ET temperament. It was told to me that "new" pianos are designed and built for ET and I should not consider any other.

Does this advice have any merit?

In my opinion, no.

Ha! No, that's just silly...

Ron Koval

They speak of the correspondence of partials that allow for a fuller tone , probably

(not of the tensions difference or instability, even if by evidence changing the tuning style makes a stable piano in an instable one until it have been tuned the same 3 or 4 times by a competent tuner.....)

So, you opinion ...

Pianos are not designed for a single temperament.

Thanks for all the replies. It was exactly the same as what my instinct told me. But, not being a PT I wanted to be certain. It dismays me to hear otherwise from a member of a family of alleged respectable RPTs.

I have been spending most of today reading an earlier March thread and listening to the recordings there posted by Grandpianoman. I am genuinely intrigued with EBVT III and hope to invite Bill over someday to have a go.

for sure it is intriging. but dont trust the ready to go sentences neither. pianos, particularly Japanese ones ARE computed from a basic ET with attention to the correspondence between partials (ih) that is supposed to provide ease of tuning, which is the case on most of them. I am astonished to have to answer to such comments .
That part of the aspect is demayed, to me Ut would me more accepted on an old piano with very " impure " tone ( the pianos that gave most of the users of UT ) with the Even Beating part of that desequilibrium is fighted. the pleasing effect heard in EBVT is mostly based on the 12 15 even beating. pay a chromatic scale of major or minor chords in EVBT someone if you want to proove your point

As Loren says.

Kees

What Loren state is not prooved. any temperament can be tuned on a piano without breaking strings but the designer aim for a consistency in logarythmic progression when choosing strings lenght and diameter.
If you dont mind having a Shigeru more instable than it is yet you can give a try. after all we only live

What Loren state is not underlaid by reflexion. any temperament can be tuned on a piano without breaking strings but the designer aim for a consistency in logarithmic progression when choosing strings length and diameter.

If you don't mind having a Shigeru more instable than it is yet naturally (particularly with string's plane) you can give a try. after all we only live once

A Shigeru is a special piano that is in need of a first class tuner, somebody that will strive for long term stability before anything.
Once stability begins to install keeping the voicing , plane level/hammer mating good begins to be easier and the technician have more time to do so. (but to my knowledge very few techs are trained to voice those type of pianos as they prefer smooth hammers with lacquer as a mean to have much power at the expense of voice, in my opinion)

Shigeru voicing (with spectra analysis):
[video:youtube]BtJShuLtFJ4[/video]

PS Also, regulation wise , there is One and only way to regulate those actions, that is a huge difference with most grands, and if you don't know how you will leave the action a step lower...

So I would be ready to tune an UT on an older piano where the tone have not been purified as it is the case on the modern ones, when I tried a few Wells tuning on concert Steinway, the only comment I had from the musicians was that the piano was poorly tuned, they find no advantage in that.

But I like meantone (on an organ) Valotti on an harpsichord, or others, simply not my daily practice.

the main effect of reussite of EBVT is the inexperimented tuner who believe he tuned THE EBVT because there is no possibility to verify that. Very rewarding, and well you dont even need to know how to tune a decent unison then.
just from what I could hear until now.