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#1853781 - 02/29/12 04:02 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: johnlewisgrant]  
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Entheo Offline
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Originally Posted by johngrant
Here's a mistery mic I used to record that old saw .... by JSB...
And that old Chopin again, but now on the same mystery pair...


other than the clicks & pops i can find no fault with either recording, and believe that your choices (close mic for bach and a bit back for chopin) served each piece respectively well. and having to edit OUT some bass; my, what a luxury! your piano sounds excellent.

so will you tell us the name of the mystery mics?

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#1853789 - 02/29/12 04:24 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: richard_dup1]  
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Hi John,
Wonderful playing. Perhaps a bit too much room feel on the Chopin recording (I guess it's all a matter of taste), but it sounds great.

The placement for your Bach recording sounds about right to my mind's ear.

Glen


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#1853857 - 02/29/12 06:51 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: Inlanding]  
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I agree about the Chopin being, perhaps, a bit "roomy", and the piano sounding a bit in-a-box on the distant miking.

OK... the mics, which I only purchased out of morbid curiousity (and I can return them) are Chinese Ribbons!!!! Apex 210, which you can get, I think, for around 230US a pair.

These are very fussy about placement (I suppose all ribbons are).

I think I can live with the Bach sound, and I'm not sure whether in this room, with this piano, my equipment, etc., I would do any better with expensive cardioid small diaphrams, like the AKG 451 series, or the KSM 141s (switchable between card and omni). I may still yet be in a position to rent some Schoeps, and if that happens a comparison would be interesting.

As it stands, I think this Ribbon mic captures the actual tone of the instrument more accurately, depending of course on placement.

JG

Last edited by johngrant; 02/29/12 06:51 PM.
#1853918 - 02/29/12 09:28 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: Entheo]  
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i close out with a "final production" (as if there is such a thing) of the schubert impromptu, as follows. AKG 420s in cardioid mode, audiobox 22VSL, studio one DAW, converting WAV to MP3 with Exact Audio Copy (YouTube codecs suck, what can i say), windoz7 movie maker, here ya go:


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#1854987 - 03/02/12 04:28 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: richard_dup1]  
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Edited by moderator... SPAM

Last edited by Rickster; 03/02/12 05:08 PM.
#1855712 - 03/03/12 08:36 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: johnlewisgrant]  
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John - I listened carefully with my studio monitors, and I agree with your conclusion. The Apex 210's sound as good as the AKG condensers - maybe even a little better - at least on my equipment.

I actually like the Chopin sound a lot, though there were some balance issues between the channels.

I think a little fiddling with that would give me the "classical" sound that I like.

Interesting about the Apex 210.

Good luck with it, and, BTW, I think you're playing of the Bach was darned good.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
#1855717 - 03/03/12 08:44 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: Entheo]  
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Finally had a chance to listen on my studio monitors to your Soundcloud clip.

Hurrah - you're there!

The recording sounds just fine;
the C7 sounds just fine;
and so does your playing.

Congratulations.

=====================================

PS - I have received a lot of benefit from the resurrection of this thread. I'm self producing/recording a CD of "Music from the Golden Age of the Piano" soon as there's time this spring. I think folks will enjoy the music as well as the sound of my 1929 Steinert (New York Steinway B close copy). I've changed microphone placement based on what I learned in several posts - I've got an idea of what sounds "right" to some very fussy PW ears - and I learned about some dirt cheap Chinese ribbon mics that sound fantastic on solo piano which might even fit into my budget.

Good Evening to All.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
#1857221 - 03/06/12 03:11 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: Seeker]  
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Good afternoon, friends. I frequently record grand piano, both solo and in ensemble. The tools and techniques that work for you will depend on your instrument, your space, your genre, your vision, your budget, etc. That said, let's get to the nitty-gritty...

This thread (Barber's Piano Concerto, Piano World Thread) has some videos recorded with two Shure KSM141s in omni:



And here's the same space, [different] piano, different performers, recorded with Rode NT5s (omni) on the piano and Gefell M270s in omni on the ensemble:


Last edited by NorseHorse; 03/09/12 12:05 PM.

Piano Recording Engineer, Videographer
http://artslaureate.com/
#1857229 - 03/06/12 03:16 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: richard_dup1]  
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VERY nice recordings norsehorse!

#1857515 - 03/06/12 11:29 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: NorseHorse]  
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Originally Posted by NorseHorse
Good afternoon, friends. I frequently record grand piano, both solo and in ensemble. The tools and techniques that work for you will depend on your instrument, your space, your genre, your vision, your budget, etc. That said, let's get to the nitty-gritty====snip----

NorseHorse - you are, of course, correct. Me, I'm usually good with the vision thing; it's the darn budget that does the squeeze cry

Your two included recordings sound... professional.
Did you use the same preamps?

FWIW, I was surprised to find I liked the sound with the single omni pair of Shure KSM141s over the one with the NT5 and the Gefell M270s for the orchestra. I'm listening with a decent pair of headphones, not over speakers, since I'm on the road this week - but I didn't find the Gefells to sound better on the ensemble. As for the NT-5s, I'm note a Rode fan. They made the piano sound "brittle" and a bit "dead" to me.

I'll keep you in mind for recording work when I have the budget to pay for you smile



Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
#1858917 - 03/09/12 12:04 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: Seeker]  
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Thanks for the responses!

A TL-Audio Tubetracker console was used for the Barber, and a Grace 801 was used for the Gershwin.

Recording-wise, the biggest difference in the recordings is how far the microphones are from the piano. In the Barber, they are in the third row of the house. For the Gershwin, they are close, which results in a brighter, more "modern" sound. Both practical and aesthetic concerns went into the decision for each.

[UPDATE] ** Just remembered these are probably not the same pianos. A rental was brought in for the Barber, presumably leaving the in-house piano backstage in its storage area for the soloist to warm-up and practice on.

Last edited by NorseHorse; 03/09/12 12:10 PM.

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#1859214 - 03/10/12 02:06 AM Re: best piano microphone [Re: NorseHorse]  
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NorseHorse is a recordist par excellence !

Welcome to PW Christian..


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2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
#1908124 - 06/04/12 10:30 AM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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For those who might be interested, here is a link to a recording made in my piano studio with my current set up. The complete recording will become part of my first CD available for commercial release: "15 Pieces from the Golden Age of the Piano". Should have everything ready for "mastering" in about two weeks if things go as planned.

The Music Sample: from Harry Farjeon's Einen Schanengesang. http://andrewkraus.com/Smpls/Farjeon-EinenSchwanengesangPreview.mp3

Microphones: 2 CM 414 large diaphragm FET condenser microphones from Advanced Audio in Canada. The pattern was set on "Omni".

Placement: Just past the ends of the keyboards, on stands, with the base of the mics 60" above the floor

Signal Chain: simplicity itself, direct into a Tascam DR-100 flash recorder 24-bit, 96k sampling frequency.

Recording: no EQ, no reverb added. Ready for trimming and mastering.

Piano: 1929 Steinert 6'10" grand. This is a very close copy of a 1929 New York Steinway "B". It has been restrung but has the original sound board (which I think is one of the reasons it sounds as good as it does). I also had the action refurbished and replaced the original WNG parts with Renner whippens, shanks and flanges, new back checks, and Abel Natural Select hammers medium weight.

Studio: started life as a 1 car garage, became the sales office for our suburban subdivision and got a "cathedral" ceiling in the process. Tile floor. Room was very reverberant, so I've done some treatment with 2" thick fiber glass panels covered with acoustically transparent burlap as well as a 4" thick corner trap. To my ears, the room is dry enough to allow hearing details, wet enough not to be dead.




Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
#2159854 - 09/29/13 09:51 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: richard_dup1]  
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I stumbled on this old thread recently when I was looking at ways of recording my acoustic piano. My requirements were:

1) Reasonably cheap
2) Decent audio result
3) Something that is better than recording directly from iPhone or PC using on-board microphones
4) Simple and easy to use
5) Easy to move to the computer

In this thread, Grandpianoman suggested the TASCAM IM2 microphone and tried it out. I did some follow-up research.

Then I found out that Tascam is dumping their inventory of IM2 microphones. I found this:

TASCAM iM2 Channel Portable Digital Recorder on Amazon for $24. Wow!

Ref: http://www.amazon.com/iM2-Channel-P...18265&sr=8-1&keywords=tascam+im2


The IM2 TASCAM microphone is specially designed for IPOD Touch and older IPad/iPHone models that have the large (almost 1 inch wide) power connector. That's what I had, so I thought: "what's to lose for $23?" I had been seriously considering a portable digital recorder but this seemed to fill the same niche.

The IM2 arrived in about a week and I was lost on how to use it for about a day. The documentation for the microphone itself is ok but how to use it on/with the iPhone/iPod/iPad using TASCAM's PCMRecorder app left me a little lost for awhile.

From the accompanying manual:

Overview of Features:

1) This stereo mic can be connected to an iPhone 4, iPad 2, iPad, or iPod touch (4th generation) and used to record with applications that support mic input.
2) Using the angle-adjusted pair of high-sensitivity condenser mics, you can record in high-quality 44.1 kHz/16-bit format, which is equivalent to CD audio.
3) The limiter can prevent distortion when the input level is too loud, and the input level can also be adjusted, enabling optimal recording.
4) The USB connector allows the connected iPhone 4, iPad 2, iPad or iPod touch (4th gen) to be recharged while using this unit to record.

For what it's worth:

Here's a short clip that I made recording my Kawai KG-5 grand piano using this TASCAM IM2 recorder on my iPod Touch.

https://app.box.com/s/a77aw80akqe5hmws7n2k


Last edited by AZ_Astro; 09/30/13 01:18 AM.

Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2159864 - 09/29/13 10:15 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: richard_dup1]  
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... By the way, to record, I open the top and remove the music desk and place the ipod touch/IM2 mic on top of the front edge of the piano, on top of some cloth. [So the recording is 'close' and dry.] Recording is like using a VCR. You CAN play back the .wav files. You can record four or five recordings, upload them to SoundCloud (easy), or connect to your PC and move the files to your PC via iTunes. The iTunes procedure requires a little sleuthing but worked ok.

Last edited by AZ_Astro; 09/29/13 10:21 PM.

Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2159896 - 09/30/13 02:00 AM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: richard_dup1]  
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Tascam has been bought by Gibson. Based on what we're hearing from inside, It's not pretty.

Kurt


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#2160061 - 09/30/13 12:26 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: richard_dup1]  
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I must have read this thread way back when and every time it's resurfaced in between, but I'm grateful it's been resurrected again. AZ Astro it seems you've resolved your inquiry before you asked, but in typical PW style I'm going to offer a different solution.

I recently recorded my Estonia using the following; Rode NT5s through a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 preamp and interface. It sounds much better than the previous setup of the NT5s through a Presonus preamp into converters in my laptop (that's probably the weak spot). Here's a link.

http://soundcloud.com/pantonality/rhapsody

#2160185 - 09/30/13 06:19 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: Steve Chandler]  
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Originally Posted by Steve Chandler


I recently recorded my Estonia using the following; Rode NT5s through a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 preamp and interface. It sounds much better than the previous setup of the NT5s through a Presonus preamp into converters in my laptop (that's probably the weak spot). Here's a link.

http://soundcloud.com/pantonality/rhapsody


I'm no audio engineer but to my ear it sounds like a professional recording. The recording is clean and tight and it brings out nuances in the piano and your playing nicely.



Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2160186 - 09/30/13 06:20 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: KurtZ]  
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
Tascam has been bought by Gibson. Based on what we're hearing from inside, It's not pretty.

Kurt


That would explain the fire-sale price of the IM2 microphone. Thanks for the note.



Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2160452 - 10/01/13 12:40 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: AZ_Astro]  
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Originally Posted by AZ_Astro
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Tascam has been bought by Gibson. Based on what we're hearing from inside, It's not pretty.

Kurt


That would explain the fire-sale price of the IM2 microphone. Thanks for the note.


Anyway to use this microphone with a newer iPad (and the tiny power connection)?

Forrest


PTG Associate Member
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#2160532 - 10/01/13 04:08 PM Re: best piano microphone(s) - My Solution [Re: richard_dup1]  
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I don't think so, I think the connectors have a different number of pins on them.



But - maybe there is another microphone out there that works with the new iPhone and a smaller power connector?

Last edited by AZ_Astro; 10/01/13 04:09 PM.

Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2190350 - 11/30/13 02:07 AM Re: best piano microphone [Re: richard_dup1]  
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I use a similar set up but add a third mic in the middle to try to pick up more of the treble.

#2270176 - 05/02/14 12:32 PM Re: best piano microphone [Re: richard_dup1]  
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Hy Richard! I am usind Rode NT5 stereo pair and i find them really good! Additionaly i put another RODE NT1A for ambiance!
Greets!

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