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#1903952 - 05/27/12 02:24 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
Ahhhh, a Three Year Product Cycle is upon us. Seems like a good place to "Advance The Cause". Now, or in Sept, or after the New Year (3 1/2 yrs).

Whenever, it will be interesting to see what advancements are created.
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1903991 - 05/27/12 04:13 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: McBuster]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 284
Originally Posted By: McBuster
Ahhhh, a Three Year Product Cycle is upon us. Seems like a good place to "Advance The Cause". Now, or in Sept, or after the New Year (3 1/2 yrs).

Whenever, it will be interesting to see what advancements are created.



Let us hope that we get more polyphony, 256 or more, 6 layers for the samples at the least and perhaps newly recorded piano's adding longer decaying notes, not just rehashes of samples recorded twelve years ago as Yamaha does.


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/27/12 04:23 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1904000 - 05/27/12 04:34 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
Okay, ...

- A Real Spruce Soundboard
- More Watts/Amplifier(s)
- Triple Sensors - Optical not Rubber
- An Adjustable Action - LetOff - Key Force
- Each Note for the Virtual Technician
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904014 - 05/27/12 05:04 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: McBuster]
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 3013
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: McBuster
Okay, ...

- A Real Spruce Soundboard
- More Watts/Amplifier(s)
- Triple Sensors - Optical not Rubber
- An Adjustable Action - LetOff - Key Force
- Each Note for the Virtual Technician




OK I'll join in since it's fun, not meant to be critical but:

- A Real Spruce Soundboard
Nope, waste of, our, money. Won't make the slightest difference.

- More Watts/Amplifier(s)
OK

In denying the Spruce Soundboard, and wanting more watts I want a proper subwoofer with adjustable frequency crossover.

- Triple Sensors - Optical not Rubber
Nope, waste of, our, money. Won't make the slightest difference.

- An Adjustable Action - LetOff - Key Force
Maybe. What I want is an improved action with a real disengagement of the hammer on first strike then reengage, and that connection feedback you get as it strikes the strings on an acoustic.

- Each Note for the Virtual Technician
Yup, Roland already do that so why not Kawai.

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#1904018 - 05/27/12 05:09 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: spanishbuddha]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12875
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
- Each Note for the Virtual Technician
Yup, Roland already do that so why not Kawai.


Hmmm...what settings do Roland offer for each key?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1904032 - 05/27/12 05:45 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: Kawai James]
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 3013
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
- Each Note for the Virtual Technician
Yup, Roland already do that so why not Kawai.


Hmmm...what settings do Roland offer for each key?

Each note on the FP-7F can be (separately) (re)tuned. I don't know about other models.


Edited by spanishbuddha (05/27/12 05:45 PM)

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#1904043 - 05/27/12 06:06 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12875
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Ah, okay. wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1904094 - 05/27/12 07:32 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
CyberGene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 1385
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Is it only tuning which can be changed individually for each key? I can't see any real advantage to this except for deliberately making the piano sound out of tune smile I would rather prefer to be able to change the EQ (brilliance, warmth, voicing or whatever they call it).


Edited by CyberGene (05/27/12 07:33 PM)
_________________________
https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1904121 - 05/27/12 08:53 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: spanishbuddha]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
spanishbuddha

Thanks for the comments. I stand on what I suggested.

:=)
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904124 - 05/27/12 09:02 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: spanishbuddha]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
Here is a more complete list as to what I thought might be useful in the next models of the CA63/93

- No dangling cords (63) but runways on the back for both
- Ability to export all your Custom Settings to a USB Drive
- A Third Sensor or at least a better Repition
- Sensors replaced with Optical or Infrared
- A "Real" Action based on their ABS Design and Technician Adjustable
- 256 Polyphony or Why not 512 and get done with it?
- Virtual Technician - Whole Keyboard and Note by Note - it is not -that- hard down deep in the programming/firmware
- Better Music Stand
- Real Spruce-Plank Soundboard not vinyl/plywood
- Low Range and Mid Range Soundboard Transducers
- 100x2x3 instead of 50x2 Amps plus two Transducers on the 93
- Low, Mid and High Range Amp section
- Lcd Contrast Control and Cheekblock Led's Lcd Dim/On/Off
- Transducer under Keyboard

Howzzatt?
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904247 - 05/28/12 03:42 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 3013
Loc: UK
Nice list. As you know I don't really agree with everything, but I notice that neither you, or I, said anything directly about the sound or tone.

So let's add HPHI to the list? Hyper Progressive Harmonic Imaging. smile

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#1904289 - 05/28/12 08:09 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
oivavoi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Norway
A question to those of you who currently own a ca63 or ca93: How is the connectivity to a pc or a Mac? Can you plug in a MacBook through USB, for example, and hear tracks from the Mac on the internal sound system of the DP, as you play along? Does the software on the DP allow for controlling a midi keyboard smoothly without a time lag or other issues?

Of course it's possible to buy a kind of a midi "sound box" and run everything through there... But then again, everything costs money smile
_________________________
Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10

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#1904340 - 05/28/12 10:35 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: spanishbuddha]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA

"It is reasonable to disagree, it is unreasonable to be disagreeable ... "

Sometimes, on any Forum, people go a bit too far. After all, like noses, we all have opinions.

Yes, I had another list somewhere that mentioned The Sound.

- Sooper Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging SUPHI
- Eight levels of samples - per Note

- Shigeru Kawai
- Regular Concert Kawai
- Steinway Concert Grand

And, if Marketing is really Brave ...

- Bosendorfer Grand
- Yamaha Grand

Why not?

- Like Yamaha, each key is weghted seperately

As you mention, a fancier mechanical Action that includes the Jack and total mechanical adjustable using ABS (or whatever) plastics

I do believe the Soundboard would be "nicer" and have a better tone than vinyl/cheap plywood. If nothing else, it would justify the higher cost.
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904538 - 05/28/12 05:21 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: oivavoi]
bouleetbille Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 19
I've had a CA93 for about 1 year now. I record midi files from the kawai directly to my Windows PC using Cubase and a standard USB cable and it's a lot easier than using midi cables.
Generally no problems but sometimes I need to turn off and on the kawai or restart Cubase if the two stop talking to each other.
As I record I listen via headphones on my PC (Dell Studio portable; nothing special, ASIOALL drivers)

My wishlist for new Kawai:
Better repeating notes

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#1904632 - 05/28/12 08:22 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
Oh, another niceity.

Instead of having to make the Virtual Technician settings, or when Layering two sounds using the CheekBlock, or any other settings possible with the CheekBlock.

Have the ability to set a computer beside the piano and with a USB Cable, "talk" directly to the Firmware and Memory. Making the settings on the computer keyboard, which plops it into the piano.

Nice, really nice ...
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904644 - 05/28/12 08:38 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12875
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
So essentially you'd be using a computer to control the CA's settings?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1904727 - 05/28/12 11:21 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
James

Kind of. Sometimes, what someone can do on a Keyboard is alot easier and better than what one can do on a CheekBlock as on the CA93.

So, view the Computer Program as augmenting the CheekBlock and as an accessory not a replacement.

Case in point. You want to go on a long driving vacation with lots of stops for sightseeing etc. You have a GPS that can accept WiFi and Usb etc from a computer. They provide software that allows you to map out your trip with keyboard, mouse and a large monitor rather than fumbling around the onboard Led Touchscreen.

Map out the stops and routes, Click The Button, and it is loaded into the GPS just as tho you keyed it in the hard way.

As the settings and combinations will gain in complexity, a subordinate program may make our pianos alot easier to manage.

Thanks
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904741 - 05/28/12 11:46 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12875
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for the additional explanation Jon.

It's an interesting suggestion. A software-based registration/settings file editor may theoretically be possible, however I'm not sure if 'real-time' control over the instrument could be achieved with the existing hardware.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1904850 - 05/29/12 05:52 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: bouleetbille]
oivavoi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: bouleetbille
I've had a CA93 for about 1 year now. I record midi files from the kawai directly to my Windows PC using Cubase and a standard USB cable and it's a lot easier than using midi cables.
Generally no problems but sometimes I need to turn off and on the kawai or restart Cubase if the two stop talking to each other.
As I record I listen via headphones on my PC (Dell Studio portable; nothing special, ASIOALL drivers)

My wishlist for new Kawai:
Better repeating notes


Thanks! That's good to know. The ideal solution would still be to be able to hear the tracks one has recorded from the internal sound system of the DP when its connected to the PC, I think. That way one could make do solely with the headphones on. Cause you have to listen to the music from the PC in your headphones, and play on the Kawai with the speakers on? I know that Casio AP-620 has this feature - the software on the DP recognizes audio output from a connected device and can "blend it" in the mix - so thats why I'm asking.

But I can solve this problem with a "sound box". It's just a bit more hassle, and a bit more expensive.
_________________________
Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10

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#1904852 - 05/29/12 05:57 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: oivavoi]
oivavoi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Norway
Bouletbille, I realize that I misunderstood you. You proably hear both your recorded tracks and the new track that you're playing on the kawai through your pc, right? That makes sense. And that way the problem's actually solved!
_________________________
Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10

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#1904879 - 05/29/12 07:29 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: Kawai James]
McBuster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 397
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
James

No, not Real Time. Just a useful way to make settings etc alot easier. Then, unplug the cord, turn towards the Piano, and use them. Would also be a neat way to provide backup.

Updates, to the Piano's Firmware would be made the usual way. Updates to the Computer Program would be Downloads from the Net.

Next Stage after this one?

WiFi and no cord ... Tee Hee Hee ...
_________________________
Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#1904983 - 05/29/12 11:03 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: oivavoi]
Deffie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 182
Originally Posted By: oivavoi
A question to those of you who currently own a ca63 or ca93: How is the connectivity to a pc or a Mac? Can you plug in a MacBook through USB, for example, and hear tracks from the Mac on the internal sound system of the DP, as you play along? Does the software on the DP allow for controlling a midi keyboard smoothly without a time lag or other issues?

Of course it's possible to buy a kind of a midi "sound box" and run everything through there... But then again, everything costs money smile


Mine's an MP10, but it's the same connectivity options. If you're referring to MIDI then yes, you can send MIDI commands from your MacBook through USB and play along. If you want to send audio (say an MP3 you want to play along with) then you can do that too, but not through USB. You'll need to take your MacBook's audio out and hook it up to the ca93's line in.

Still, both can be done fairly painlessly.
_________________________
Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10

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#1905004 - 05/29/12 11:48 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12875
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The MP10 can play MP3 files directly from USB memory too. wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1905088 - 05/29/12 03:04 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 135
Still, as there are speakers that connect to the PC through USB, it would be nice to be able to use the Kawai CA65's speakers through the USB connection. A lot more simple, especially since laptops don't have audio out ports other than headphone.


Edited by Bogs (05/29/12 03:04 PM)
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#1905186 - 05/29/12 05:49 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 12875
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, that would be pretty handy. However, I don't believe it's possible with the current hardware. The 'USB to Host' connector is intended for sending/receiving MIDI, while the 'USB to Device' connector can only be used for loading/saving data to USB.

It's true that most laptops do not feature proper Line Out connectors, however I suspect for most uses, the headphone output into the instrument's Line In will be perfectly fine.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1905474 - 05/30/12 10:44 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: Kawai James]
Deffie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 182
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The MP10 can play MP3 files directly from USB memory too. wink

James
x


Very true, I actually quite like the feature (especially being able to set loop points)
_________________________
Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10

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#1927471 - 07/16/12 11:12 AM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: ozzienovice]
Kos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 77
Some new info:
Kawai CA65 Digital Piano Launched

All in all it sounds like a typical marketing bs:

"All new" harmonic imaging XL sound generator
"All new" grand-feel key action with let off
Third sensor
256 polyphony

One thing caught my eye though:
Quote:
it greatly expands upon the size of waveforms and dedicated sample ram of its older sibling

No more 1 second samples? Sounds too good to be true...
_________________________
"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns

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#1927521 - 07/16/12 12:32 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: Kos]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3223
Loc: Wales
Originally Posted By: Kos
All in all it sounds like a typical marketing bs:

"All new" harmonic imaging XL sound generator

So there we have it. HIXL usurps the throne previously held by UPHI. So the marketing surrounding the new ES7 declaring it as the best thing since sliced bread cannot be justified, since it now uses a sound engine (PHI) two generations removed from the latest. Unless these acronyms mean absolutely nothing, Kawai has cemented the policy of rationing their sample sets so that those who want portable machines are stuck with lower quality. Gee, thanks Kawai!

Sorry for the OT rant, but I for one am very tired of this kind of thing. Many people on this forum (including me) have commented on the shortcomings of the current PHI samples, but it seems that Kawai has a certain amount of disdain for their gigging customers. However, those who are privileged enough to receive the blessings of HIXL - i.e. home and college users, will probably enjoy a significantly improved and more detailed piano sound.


Quote:
One thing caught my eye though:
Quote:
it greatly expands upon the size of waveforms and dedicated sample ram of its older sibling

No more 1 second samples? Sounds too good to be true...

I hope it is true. But for me and my needs, other manufacturers are looking more attractive right now.
_________________________
"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015

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#1927526 - 07/16/12 12:39 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 3034
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: voxpops
So the marketing surrounding the new ES7 declaring it as the best thing since sliced bread cannot be justified, since it now uses a sound engine (PHI) two generations removed from the latest. Unless these acronyms mean absolutely nothing, Kawai has cemented the policy of rationing their sample sets so that those who want portable machines are stuck with lower quality. Gee, thanks Kawai!

Sorry for the OT rant, but I for one am very tired of this kind of thing. Many people on this forum (including me) have commented on the shortcomings of the current PHI samples, but it seems that Kawai has a certain amount of disdain for their gigging customers.


Good point. You have to give credit to Roland and Casio, who in effect equip all or certainly most of their pianos with the best sounds they can make at the time. Kawai still use the old, old, old Harmonic Imaging engine in a couple of their cheaper models - and it is really so far behind the curve as to be embarrassing.

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#1927558 - 07/16/12 01:50 PM Re: Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ? [Re: EssBrace]
Mar_red Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15
Loc: Poland
More details and sound samples on Kawai Europe

http://www.kawai.de/ca65_en.htm

http://www.kawai.de/ca95_en.htm

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