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digital piano bass register sucks...
#1905164 05/29/12 05:15 PM
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...after switching finally to acoustic grand whenever I come back to digital piano bass register seems thin and emmpty regardless if it's roland stage pianos or yamaha. The lowest octave on DP sounds like octave higer on acoustic. I don't know how I could play like this for so many years...


Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905165 05/29/12 05:17 PM
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Playing through the integrated speakers on my Fp-7F, I'd agree. Playing through my external speakers which can reproduce the fundamental, I'd disagree :P Can't ask for miracles out of those tiny integrated speakers smile

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905199 05/29/12 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by offnote
...after switching finally to acoustic grand whenever I come back to digital piano bass register seems thin and emmpty...


Unless you are playing a bigger grand (6'+) then I disagree. Small grands and uprights very often have awful thudding tuneless bass. DPs are almost always sampled from 9' grands so there is much better clarity and pitch at low frequencies. Any disappointment is bound to stem from the speaker system on DPs, not the tone generation.


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Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
EssBrace #1905226 05/29/12 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by offnote
...after switching finally to acoustic grand whenever I come back to digital piano bass register seems thin and emmpty...


Unless you are playing a bigger grand (6'+) then I disagree. Small grands and uprights very often have awful thudding tuneless bass. DPs are almost always sampled from 9' grands so there is much better clarity and pitch at low frequencies. Any disappointment is bound to stem from the speaker system on DPs, not the tone generation.


well, you may disagree but that won't change the fact.
I play just 5 foot baby grand and there is no comparison at all in bass register to any of high end DPs. Acoustic is better by huge margin. I was surpriced too BTW.
Also I use high quality sony headphones and yamaha studio monitors.


Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905230 05/29/12 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by offnote
well, you may disagree but that won't change the fact my opinion.


There, I fixed it for you.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
Kawai James #1905231 05/29/12 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by offnote
well, you may disagree but that won't change the fact my opinion.


There, I fixed it for you.


thanks, all that matters for me anyway.
Here is my advice - don't cheat yourself and open your ears.
Life is too short for half solutions. smokin

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905236 05/29/12 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by offnote


thanks, all that matters for me anyway.
Here is my advice - don't cheat yourself and open your ears.
Life is too short for half solutions. smokin


I am sure your are completely correct. No speaker will ever sound like a metal wire under a ton of tension.

Alas, much as I would like to have a real grand, I can't stand lagging it around and tuning it. It's all about compromises.

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
alekkh #1905245 05/29/12 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by alekkh
Originally Posted by offnote


thanks, all that matters for me anyway.
Here is my advice - don't cheat yourself and open your ears.
Life is too short for half solutions. smokin


I am sure your are completely correct. No speaker will ever sound like a metal wire under a ton of tension.

Alas, much as I would like to have a real grand, I can't stand lagging it around and tuning it. It's all about compromises.


I understand this of course, been like that for years.
Don't get me wrong I love digital pianos and have few of them
still at home. Moreover I'll probably buy in near feature
V-Piano for my studio because recording acoustic is a nightmare.

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
alekkh #1905247 05/29/12 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alekkh
No speaker will ever sound like a metal wire under a ton of tension.


exactly right thumb and i'd add: No speaker will ever sound like a metal wire under a ton of tension along with a real spruce soundboard...

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905395 05/30/12 05:41 AM
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I have an acquaintance whom I helped to buy his baby grand last year. He insisted that he can't have anything bigger than 5'. Eventually he bought a 5' 1'' baby, the best-sounding one for its size that I could find for him, regardless of cost.

The whole of the lowest octave range just sound like amorphous thuds to my ears. If he'd just go up by another 6 inches, it'd be a whole lot better.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905397 05/30/12 05:46 AM
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Which model did you select for him, just out of interest?


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905399 05/30/12 06:06 AM
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Baby grands are horrible things. I'll take my upright U3 over a baby grand any day.

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
Kawai James #1905404 05/30/12 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Which model did you select for him, just out of interest?


I didn't want to go into brands, because with acoustics, every piano sounds different, but it was a K.Kawai (can't remember which model). We compared it with Bostons and a few other brands before settling on it.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905496 05/30/12 11:23 AM
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I remember hearing somewhere (perhaps here) that on some acoustic pianos the lowest strings have first harmonics which are louder than the fundamental frequency. That could lead to a timbre of different quality to the case where the fundamental dominates. Maybe the source of annoyance for some posters comes from too little, or too much, overtones.
My ancient CLP560 has a lovely rich sound in the lowest octave. Too bad about the other notes smile (soon to be replaced - if you live in SW England and want it for real cheap just contact me!)


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Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
Virgo Cluster #1905523 05/30/12 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Virgo Cluster
I remember hearing somewhere (perhaps here) that on some acoustic pianos the lowest strings have first harmonics which are louder than the fundamental frequency. That could lead to a timbre of different quality to the case where the fundamental dominates. Maybe the source of annoyance for some posters comes from too little, or too much, overtones.


The loudness of the overtones aren't the problem, it's the fact that they can be quite out of tune with notes higher up on the keyboard. This is particularly relevant on short pianos - on these, the overtones are more out of tune, and they are relatively loud compared to longer pianos. It's a double killer. The out of tune-ness is known as "inharmonicity". It's why I hate baby grands.

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
Virgo Cluster #1905524 05/30/12 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Virgo Cluster
I remember hearing somewhere (perhaps here) that on some acoustic pianos the lowest strings have first harmonics which are louder than the fundamental frequency. That could lead to a timbre of different quality to the case where the fundamental dominates. Maybe the source of annoyance for some posters comes from too little, or too much, overtones.


The loudness of the overtones aren't the problem, it's the fact that they can be quite out of tune with notes higher up on the keyboard. This is particularly relevant on short pianos - on these, the overtones are more out of tune, and they are relatively loud compared to longer pianos. It's a double killer. The out of tune-ness is known as "inharmonicity". It's why I hate baby grands.


Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905535 05/30/12 12:18 PM
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Until quite recently the only section of a digital piano that never sounded great was the left hand accompaniment area, the octave around and below middle C.

Even cheap digital pianos sounded pretty good in the top registers and lowest registers, that area around middle C (the octave below) was the trouble maker for a very long time. They now have it sounding pretty good.



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Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905553 05/30/12 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by offnote
I play just 5 foot baby grand and there is no comparison at all in bass register to any of high end DPs.


You're just now noticing that pianos and digital keyboards sound different? They are worlds apart - no need to go into all the differences here.

That said, it's possible to have a huge, thundering bass register from a digital piano. You just have to know how to get it.

Mychal

Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
offnote #1905610 05/30/12 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by offnote
[quote=EssBrace][quote=offnote].....
I play just 5 foot baby grand and there is no comparison at all in bass register to any of high end DPs. Acoustic is better by huge margin. I was surpriced too BTW.
Also I use high quality sony headphones and yamaha studio monitors.


the audio system matters a LOT. Not only which amp and which seekers but the geometry of the setup. Where the speakers are placed and how the sound reflects around the room. In fact, the room maters more than the brand of speakers.

The hear the lowest octave you's likely need a sub woofer crossed over at about 50Hz or lower.


But really it is not fair at all to compare a digital piano to an acoustic unless are listening to a recording of the acoustic piano through the same speakers as the digital piano. At best a digital piano will sound like a good recording of an acoustic piano. You can't expect more than that. Try making a recording and listen on the same speakers


Last edited by ChrisA; 05/30/12 03:13 PM.
Re: digital piano bass register sucks...
ChrisA #1905696 05/30/12 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisA
But really it is not fair at all to compare a digital piano to an acoustic unless are listening to a recording of the acoustic piano through the same speakers as the digital piano. At best a digital piano will sound like a good recording of an acoustic piano. You can't expect more than that. Try making a recording and listen on the same speakers



exactly, you got that very right - At best a digital piano will sound like a good recording of an acoustic piano. My post was not really a comparison just reflection what we miss when we drown in digital world completly.

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