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>The initial part of each sample is pre-loaded in memory. Then the remaining part is streamed when needed (and of course cached).

Ok so there probably is no issue at all with the seek time of a reasonably modern HD? Or does a problem occur if you sustain a huge amount of notes right away (before it can be cached)?

With Galaxy under Kontakt, you can play immediately as you begin "loading" a piano. But there is much delay in many of the notes. I call it "delay" rather than "latency" because the delay is HUGE. But that's only until it finishes loading. (Interesting side note: With Ivory 1.5, there's a similar pre-load, but you can't play at all during that time.)

For Vintage D, Kontakt loads 197 MB, which takes maybe 10 seconds. The Vienna Grand loads about 230 MB. Some others load even more. Once that (initial part of each sample) is loaded, things become normal.

You cannot control this pre-loading. (Well, with Ivory 1.5 you can adjust the size of the pre-load. You can make it bigger for a high-RAM computer and lower for a small-RAM computer. But that's all.)

Bottom line: It loads what it loads. You cannot pre-load the entire sample set.

Next point ... to musicmad: If I understand your initial post, you already have the WD external drive. So why all the talk? Just plug it in and see whether it works!

It's just come to mind which i should of mentioned in my original post. That all i intend to do is play the sample libraries themselves, that being the (Galaxy ll and Vintage D) and record them in GarageBand as solo piano tracks for later editing in post production. Will not be working with mass orchestral works or multiple sampled instruments to create high end scores.

I'm assuming with this approach without any heavy demands for multiple instrument streaming, there really shouldn't be a problem dumping the complete Library on to the WD 7200rpm External Drive via USB 2.O. In the hope that there shouldn't be any latency issues ?

Would this be fair to say ?

You can adjust the preload size in Kontakt up to 720 MB for Vintage D. (Use Options/Memory to change the preload size).

I suppose you could create a Ram Disk and load the entire sample set to ram, but I've never tried it because it isn't necessary in my cases.

Kontakt disk streaming ("DFD" - Direct From Disk) appears to be able to be completely disabled for a given instrument:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?p=696701

I haven't checked V5 yet. (and I only have V3.5)

I guess most of us here are using the Kontakt Player, though, and perhaps this setting is not able to be changed.

Greg.

Your probably right. I purchased the WD 7200rpm External Drive for speed purposes, which has now been defeated by the slow BUS of the USB 2.0. I'm now thinking it's just as well to install the Library on the Internal 5400rpm Drive as this will now probably be faster ? As long as there is enough disc space this should be completely fine no ?

Yeah, it's always a good idea to ignore the product manufacturer's recommendations. It will work just fine and you can pass on your success in forums about how you beat the manufacturer's recommendations. Until you ask it to do something that doesn't work anymore. Then you can get on a forum and complain about the manufacture's product design. Geez ....

From the Vintage D page on the Galaxy Instruments website:

We recommend to install the Galaxy II library not on the same drive as the system, nor on the same drive that is used for recording or playing digital audio tracks. Plus the drive for the library should be a fast harddrive (at least 7200 rpm), either internal or with a fast external interface (recommended Firewire 800, minimum USB 2.0 or Firewire 400).

And as I said above, for more disk intensive piano software, other manufacturers do not recommend USB 2 at all, but you may get away with it for the Vintage D (which is one of the least intensive streaming programs) depending on the latency you want and whatever else you try to do at the same time while playing. But unlike most everyone else, you will probably never buy another virtual piano so it won't become a problem for you in the future.

You miss understand the point in question Macy.

I agree it's logical to comply with the manufactures recommendations, that is why i deliberately when out and purchased the My Book WD 7200rpm External Hard Drive for faster access time "for the Sample Library".

However it wasn't until i realized the USB 2.0. BUS would slow all this down. Thats why I'm now thinking to install the Library on the internal 5400 rpm Drive without the need for USB 2.0. and use the External 7200 rpm Drive for back up storage.

Admittedly a wrong decision on my side getting a External 7200 HD with only USB 2.0. But even FW-400 FW-800 OR TB ports wouldn't of helped as the Mac doesn't have. What i should of done is simply replaced the internal 5400 rpm Drive for a 7200 rpm Drive which is what I'm now thinking of doing.

I'm not misunderstanding anything except your determination to do what the manufacturer tells you not to do. The manufacturer of Vintage D says USB 2 is the minimum recommended interface for that program. So what you bought complies assuming the disc is indeed 7200 rpm. So try using it. Instead you want to go against the manufacturers recommendation by 1) Putting the samples on the internal system disc, and 2) by using a 5400 rpm disc. Even if change the internal disc to 7200 rpm it will still be the system disc unless you plan to boot from the external drive, which seems rather awkward with a laptop.

Anyway, I won't bother you any longer. Good luck with whatever you do.

No need to get snitty. A single internal drive will certainly work. It works just fine on my six-year-old POS laptop.

And some people have been successful with 5400 RPM drives. So there's no harm in trying.

Then, if storage is in short supply on his computer and he's forced to replace it with a larger drive, he'll almost certainly buy a 7200 RPM unit anyway. And that, too, will work.

My single internal drive is working ok for me too, and I also have a pretty ordinary laptop by today's standards, and I'm using a different product (East West QL Pianos) which is, I think, more demanding of the disk. Having said that, I'm no Rachmaninoff, and I know how to configure my computer. Also, my disk is a 7200rpm drive - not 5400.

One thing you could do is to spend 5 bucks on an 8GB USB FLASH drive, and try putting the samples on that. I think that should work pretty well, even though it's only USB 2.0. (I have seen reports from others that are doing this, but I can't remember what piano software they were using - I think it was either Synthogy Ivory and/or Galaxy/Vintage D) If that still doesn't work very well, your problem may not be related to the disk.

Other general things to look at:
- Make sure your processor is locked at the maximum frequency.
- Disable your network interface and close down other programs that you don't need while playing the piano
- Try to ensure that background housekeeping tasks are not running. (e.g disk defragging).

I don't use a Mac so I can't be very specific.

Greg.

I wasn't trying to be "snitty". I was the only one here that bothered to look up the Vintage D manufacturer's recommendations for him. According to the Vintage D manufacturer the external drive he bought meets the minimum requirements, so it might work. Unless he proposes to return it, why not just try it?

Instead, what he proposed to do, and what you told him to do above, does not meet the manufacturers requirements. You aren't using a Mac, so how do you know that Vintage D is going to work while he is running and recording his performance in Garageband at the same time off the same system disc? Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but that's precisely the kind of thing (amongst other things) that I'll bet the manufacturer was concerned about. What else does he have running off the system disc at the same time? We don't know, but the manufacturer realizes (and I realize) that could cause problems too. And just because something might work the first time he tries it is no guarantee it will keep working as he makes future changes or additional demands on the system.

As someone that has designed, manufactured, sold, and supported my own products, I've seen customers that refuse to follow the minimum requirements for using a product. It may work at first and then later fail when something in the system is changed.

Another way to meet all the Vintage D manufacturer's requirements (and meet the requirements of manufacturer's that recommend against USB 2 drives) without replacing the Macbook he has (which has no firewire interface), would be to replace the optical drive with a 7200 rpm drive (or an SSD), and use an external USB Superdrive when he really needed it ($79 from Apple). He has already suggested he might replace the 5400 rpm drive with a new 7200 rpm drive, so why not replace the optical drive instead and now have 2 drives as recommended by ALL manufacturers (that I have seen). The next Macbook Pro's won't have an internal optical drive anyway (according to most reports). Of course, he could also consider replacing the old Macbook with a Macbook Pro (which would have Firewire 800) when prices drop soon ahead of new models, or consider one of the new Macbook Pro's when they arrive. He might appreciate the additional CPU horsepower for the other tasks he mentioned.

Can a disk drive fit into a DVD-drive slot?

Thanks for your logical response MacMacMac. I was simply trying to explain to Macy that the speed of the External 7200 RPM Drive will not be of any benefit now to the Sample Library due to the drop down speed of the USB2 BUS. Therefor installing the Library on the internal 5400 RPM Drive will be more efficient in speed times then going with the 7200 RPM under USB2.


Exactly.

Thats because a 7200 RPM is a "Performance Drive" it can take the weight

No it won't. The 7200 RPM Drive will spin off the samples at 7200 Rotations Per Minute, but once hitting the USB2 BUS it will be like a slow walk across the park until it gets from the 7200 RPM Drive to the Mac, whereas using the internal 5400 RPM Drive will avoid this problem.

Yes, it's done all the time on Macs for situations like this. Its simple and inexpensive to add a 2nd 2.5" 7200 rpm SATA drive, or you could add an SSD that way.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DDAMBS0GB/

Wow! $65
For that much money, you could simply replace the internal drive with a bigger one.

Do you have reading comprehension problem or do you simply think you know more about Vintage D than people that designed it?

From the Vintage D page on the Galaxy Instruments website:

We recommend to install the Galaxy II library not on the same drive as the system, nor on the same drive that is used for recording or playing digital audio tracks. Plus the drive for the library should be a fast harddrive (at least 7200 rpm), either internal or with a fast external interface (recommended Firewire 800, minimum USB 2.0 or Firewire 400).


There is more to this drive issue than the maximum sustained throughput of the interface. That is only one aspect of the problem.

You were speaking to musicmad, but I'll put in an opinion ...

I would PREFER not to use a USB-connected drive. Yet people have had success with USB that.

I don't see anything in the Vintage D recommendation that says it won't work. So how do you go from ...
(a) "we recommend that it not be on the same drive as the system"
and
(b) "minimum USB 2.0" ...
... to "it won't work" and "do you have reading comprehension problem"?

My reading comprehension says that the requirements have been met!