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Toccatas #1903187
05/25/12 08:52 PM
05/25/12 08:52 PM
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Damon Offline OP
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What's your favorite? Here's mine.



I read through it today and it may be beyond me, but I think I might try it anyway. I've already chickened out on it a few months ago but I find it very compelling and relentless. Plus I have nothing but romantic stuff in my rep, except a couple of Beethoven pieces.

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Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903195
05/25/12 09:27 PM
05/25/12 09:27 PM
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Re: Toccatas [Re: DameMyra] #1903203
05/25/12 09:42 PM
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I figure this one will be most folks favorite since it gets mentioned often around here. The only one I ever learned was the Katchaturian one, about 40 years ago. I should have kept it up, then I would have a 20th century piece to play.

Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903204
05/25/12 09:44 PM
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If we're counting the kind of toccata just from Romantic period on, then Schumann's for me.

Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903207
05/25/12 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Damon
The only one I ever learned was the Katchaturian one, about 40 years ago. I should have kept it up, then I would have a 20th century piece to play.

Ah come on, Damon, if you cannot sightread it, I think you're playing it too fast! I learned and memorized it -back in my heady pre-uni days- within a week.

OTH, the outer sections do benefit from pushing the speed. It can be very a impressive party piece if lurking sophisticated listeners do not require something on the order of the Bach C minor. (Now that's hard.)


Jason
Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903220
05/25/12 10:31 PM
05/25/12 10:31 PM
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I like Ravel and the Kapustin Toccatina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh4G8paWGqQ

Also Bach c minor, e minor, and G Major.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Toccatas [Re: argerichfan] #1903222
05/25/12 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Damon
The only one I ever learned was the Katchaturian one, about 40 years ago. I should have kept it up, then I would have a 20th century piece to play.

Ah come on, Damon, if you cannot sightread it, I think you're playing it too fast! I learned and memorized it -back in my heady pre-uni days- within a week.


It's not hard to play but, for me, it is hard to remember. It didn't make musical sense to me at the time. I was required to learn it, but didn't like it and never played it without the score. Of course, it's too late to sight read it, I've already played it! laugh

Also, you probably have a much better memory than me. The fastest I ever learned (memorized) anything was the military polonaise at about 2 weeks.

Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903230
05/25/12 10:44 PM
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Mine is Horowitz too (and there's a famous flub at the beginning -- doesn't matter): smile



Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903236
05/25/12 10:49 PM
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Ravel's of course!

Collard takes this at break-neck speed:


Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903238
05/25/12 10:50 PM
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I haven't heard any of those before and I love them all, especially the Prokofiev.

Here's Mark Salman playing the Liszt toccata.



Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Toccatas [Re: didyougethathing] #1903242
05/25/12 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by didyougethathing
Ravel's of course!....

When you posted that, I wanted to post this one from our own OSK smile ....but he seems to have taken it off!

It was real good.

Re: Toccatas [Re: Orange Soda King] #1903245
05/25/12 10:57 PM
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(Hey, what's the deal?) smile

Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903246
05/25/12 10:58 PM
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Toccatas are not my favorite form, but I will say Schumann's and Ravel's.

I recently had the opportunity to stand next to a very good pianist as she stumbled through the Schumann toccata below-speed. (She had worked on it decades ago.) The experience-- hearing those sounds close-up, rough-hewn, unpolished-- was far more thrilling than any perfected, smoothed-out breakneck-speed performance I've ever heard in the concert hall or on disk.

-Jason


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
Re: Toccatas [Re: beet31425] #1903247
05/25/12 10:59 PM
05/25/12 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by beet31425
....The experience-- hearing those sounds close-up, rough-hewn, unpolished-- was far more thrilling than any perfected, smoothed-out breakneck-speed performance I've ever heard in the concert hall or on disk.

Wow -- that was an extreme surprise ending to the post!

I thought it was going to be how disproportionally pathetic a certain kind of piece can sound when it's not quite up to snuff.

I can see it either way....

Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903249
05/25/12 11:02 PM
05/25/12 11:02 PM
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Mark, sorry I removed the video and reuploaded it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqZr6RW9geY

However, THIS is break neck speed. And it's actually really beautiful and musical and consistent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hrOrFUO-QQ

Re: Toccatas [Re: gooddog] #1903250
05/25/12 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gooddog
I haven't heard any of those before and I love them all, especially the Prokofiev.

Here's Mark Salman playing the Liszt toccata.


Me too. I also just posted that video in the Franz Liszt thread. Your instructor is awesome.

Re: Toccatas [Re: Orange Soda King] #1903254
05/25/12 11:11 PM
05/25/12 11:11 PM
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New York
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
....I removed the video and reuploaded it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqZr6RW9geY

Cool!
It still sounds real good! smile

Re: Toccatas [Re: beet31425] #1903255
05/25/12 11:12 PM
05/25/12 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by beet31425
Toccatas are not my favorite form...

Try Bach's F major toccata for organ, that is probably my favourite. Here it is with score. Love that tonic pedal point, then the organ pedals taking off. What an exciting piece!

It was quite a party piece for Virgil Fox, and of course his pedal technique was legendary.


Jason
Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903256
05/25/12 11:14 PM
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A couple of interesting ones:



I think this is the definitive Schumann:



One of my favorites is Rossini's 6th Rien, but I do not think there are any recordings of it.

Among the Scarlatti Sonatas are a few toccatas, which are good.


Semipro Tech
Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903260
05/25/12 11:24 PM
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Bach's prelude in C# from WTC 1 could certainly be considered a toccata. Listen to Raymond Lewenthal play it, and don't miss what he morphs into!


Jason
Re: Toccatas [Re: argerichfan] #1903262
05/25/12 11:34 PM
05/25/12 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Try Bach's F major toccata for organ, that is probably my favourite. Here it is with score. Love that tonic pedal point, then the organ pedals taking off. What an exciting piece!....

+1!!

I would have said that one if I weren't thinking just of piano pieces. (Although I'm not on real solid ground having said Bach-Busoni!) grin

I tried working out a piano arrangement of that Toccata, didn't do real well but played it a lot anyway. I wish someone who can really do these things would do this piece....

IMO the "best parts" are the "um--PUM--PUM's" like at 3:12.
And this movement has a couple of my favorite chords of all time anywhere:
The deceptive cadence at 8:38, and the third-to-last chord (8:56).

I would have liked him to sit on that third-to-last chord a bit more, to really mark it. The way he plays it, it's hard to tell exactly what's so outrageous about it: It's an F major chord with a B-flat passing tone in the bass instead of a C. That chord works great on the piano too. Try it! -- just play an F major chord in the RH, and a low Bb octave in the LH. I could play that last cadence endlessly forever.

It's actually the same final cadence as in the C# minor Prelude posted by Argerichfan, without the morph ha ....but with the bass of that octave morphed into a 'wrong note.'

Re: Toccatas [Re: Kreisler] #1903279
05/26/12 12:31 AM
05/26/12 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreisler
I like .... the Kapustin Toccatina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh4G8paWGqQ


ALWAYS CLICK KREISLER'S LINKS

Last edited by wower; 05/26/12 12:32 AM.

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Re: Toccatas [Re: wower] #1903280
05/26/12 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by wower
Originally Posted by Kreisler
I like .... the Kapustin Toccatina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh4G8paWGqQ


ALWAYS CLICK KREISLER'S LINKS


I clicked it. That is a good one!

Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903281
05/26/12 12:44 AM
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Another I played as a teen but it doesn't have toccata in the title, still seems toccata-like to me is Benjamin Godard's "Le Cavalier Fantastique".

I didn't see a pro recording but see if you agree.


Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903309
05/26/12 02:01 AM
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I rather like Sorabji's Toccata No.1, but at 75 minutes and crushingly hard to play, it's probably not the wisest choice for a recital!


Yama B3
Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903317
05/26/12 02:54 AM
05/26/12 02:54 AM
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Poulenc
Bowen
Hawes
Babajanian (you'd have to be in the right mood to like this one, but it's on the edge of falling off a cliff)

And there was one by Frescobaldi that I really liked when I was in college. Can't find it now...


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Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903346
05/26/12 06:00 AM
05/26/12 06:00 AM
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New York City
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Is the last movement of Prokofiev's Sonata No.7 considered a Toccata?

What is the difference, if any, between a Toccata and a Perpetuum Moblile like the famous one in C that closes one of Weber's Sonatas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9XNEKiTwwU

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/26/12 06:02 AM.
Re: Toccatas [Re: Damon] #1903364
05/26/12 07:23 AM
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I like Howard Skempton's Toccata...tried to find a free audio link, none available.

You'd enjoy it -- it's more of an anti-toccata.

Re: Toccatas [Re: pianoloverus] #1903403
05/26/12 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Is the last movement of Prokofiev's Sonata No.7 considered a Toccata?

What is the difference, if any, between a Toccata and a Perpetuum Moblile like the famous one in C that closes one of Weber's Sonatas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9XNEKiTwwU


Good question. The Prokofiev does resemble the "form?". Is there a form? The Godard piece I mentioned above seems toccata-like to me as does Bartoks Allegro Barbaro. The key feature seems to be a constant relentless motion.

Re: Toccatas [Re: RealPlayer] #1903405
05/26/12 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RealPlayer
I like Howard Skempton's Toccata...tried to find a free audio link, none available.

You'd enjoy it -- it's more of an anti-toccata.



[color:#33CCFF][b]Are you talking about this?[/b][/color]
I'd say you are right that it is anti-toccata. It's slow enough that the Amazon sample only plays 4 or 5 notes! laugh

Last edited by Damon; 05/26/12 09:23 AM. Reason: Made the link more obvious
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