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I think the only unusual thing about the OP's idea is the idea of a "tour". It's just an extension of the idea of a classical musician performing at a private function which is not so rare. Weddings have this fairly frequently(string quartets, etc.).

Yes, that much I understand: musicians looking for "gigs," and publicly advertising their services to those who may seek them. Just about every professional advertises his services in some way, from the Yellow Pages to business cards, to newspaper ads to flyers in the hope/expectation that the client will come to him. Is there not some difference between those and an artist/agent seeking out the specific clients - only those with high-end pianos - with the expectation that they would arrange parties not for themselves but for the artist and that would coincide with the artist's (local? nation-wide?) travel "tour" and ... (everything else I said above)?

No need for anyone to answer - unless s/he feels compelled to do so. I'll just resolve not to understand the full sense of the original request and go on to other things.

Regards,

Agreed. But what I found strange, in addition to the tour aspect, was the requirement for a "high end" piano. The OP says his artist "has a thing" for pianos, that he's seeking the "best private" pianos, etc. I would think that if his interest were purely pecuniary, he might settle for a piano that's "in tune" and has 88 keys. But he seems to be looking for pianos that are of extremely high quality, so he can build a network of potential venues for his tour (not to mention his encore tours).

I agree with Old Man and Bruce about the "high end" part also being unusual.

With all due respect, you're wrong.

He deliberately misrepresented the emphasis (it has little to do with trying high-quality pianos; it's about getting paid by the people who have those kinds of pianos) and deliberately misrepresented his degree of knowledge and expertise on what he was asking about. He knew how "to begin"; as he later conceded, he's the guy's agent, and he's been doing it.


I think it's very likely that's what he was looking for. You seem to be taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was, and you're right. But that's not how we normally judge things, is it? I don't know about you, but unless it's a court of law or something like that, I go on what seems likely.

The only problem I had with any of what he was doing was the misrepresentations, which were substantial.

There you go again, stating your opinion as if it was factual.

I certainly didn't think that Old Man was "taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was". "What seems likely" is only what you think is likely. Clearly, other posters didn't agree.

In the very first post the thread, the OP clearly indicated both that he was the pianist's agent and the pianist wanted to be paid. He said "convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party".

But that wasn't enough for you. You continued sarcastically criticizing and ridiculing him. He finally said his thread was "a bad idea" which was probably his reaction to your bullying and not an apology. Your reply to this comment was the condescending "If that's an admission, it's admirable."

When I first read this thread I thought the OP hadn't made things clear about him being the agent and the pianist getting paid until his third post. Rereading the thread I see he made this clear in his opening post. I find most of the criticism totally unfair.

With all due respect?! Please, I'm not that freakin' old!

Seriously, Mark, I take your point, and you are probably right about his true intentions, but I don't think he misrepresented anything. His opening post said this:


So my point was, why not take his words at face value, and let him reveal himself? I have no problem with people ridiculing his ideas, or peppering him with questions as BruceD did. He's fair game, and it would have been interesting to read his responses.

If his question "Anyone have any ideas?" was truly sincere, he'd respond to any and all queries. But if his motives were suspect, as you suggest, he'd conclude that this was not fertile ground for advancing his business pursuits, and would've taken his marbles and gone home.

What I so admired about the late Tim Russert's journalistic style was that he never went on the attack with his guests. He would simply read a quote, or play a video of a speech his interviewee had given, and then ask, with that sweet, baby-faced smile, "Now, what in the world made you say that?"

I think a little more of that attitude would enhance these threads considerably. Simply let people have their say, and all (or at least, enough) will be revealed in good time.

BTW, Mark, I enjoy your posts. You always seem willing to be helpful and informative, and you take on your critics with warmth and humor. I say this in spite of any opinions to the contrary from stores or pianoloverus.

OldMan: I appreciate that even in such disagreement, your tone is so gracious and friendly. We do disagree on how we see what the OP was doing, and so we have quite different views on what kinds of replies to him were appropriate. Regarding that more would have been revealed if there had been the chance, I think it was already well enough revealed. I know that you don't necessarily agree -- although I see that you do agree I was "probably" right about his intent. Since you agree with that, I find it quite surprising that you'd be so critical of the tack that I took, because that means you agree that probably his approach was intentionally misleading. But heck, none of us can expect to ever stop being surprised.

The thread DID develop on its own, to my way of thinking. And the OP was hardly "run out of town" - in fact, he is still totally free to post, as far as I know. That he left was his own choice alone.

He had already asked for the thread to be deleted or locked before he was even identified (but he was so unfamiliar with the forum that he didn't even know how to make that happen, nor, it seems, did he pursue it very far, since it remains unlocked).

Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.

Several posters were rude to him was the reason he left.


I have yet to see any posts that explain why his idea was "whacked out". It is certainly not unheard of for classical performers to play at private parties or events. In fact, there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.

I thought it was worded a little funny but I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party? Here's a forum filled with pianists (presumably), perhaps they know some of these people. Maybe they have nice pianos themselves that are unfulfilled."

I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk. It didn't seem to me like English was his first language.

For the sake of discussion, I know a guy who lives in the burbs north of New York city whose main hobby is collecting old European (ie Bosies, Faz, Bechstein and Hamburg) pianos and rebuilding them, often in Eastern Europe for much less money than it would cost here. The first floor of his house is akin to a showroom. And he does have piano parties whereby he invites pianists to play differnt pieces on different instruments. The ones I know of personally were grad students from J or some such neighborhood conservatories. Now I do not know if he pays them something but I would not be surprised if he did. Otherwise what is their incentive.

Having said that I am not supporting superchibisan (I love this name)'s approach etc.. Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it? it would have made for an even juicier thread.


P.S. "unfulfilled pianos". Like that term too..

Fallen for what?

You are exactly right. Everyone here is entitled to be suspicious about his motives and to express those concerns. And as I said to Mark C, he probably DID view this forum as a gateway to finding these high-end piano owners. But as you said, "Who did he stand to harm?" And since he had not yet explicitly said he was soliciting our business (which would have violated the forum's rules), it would have been much more interesting to simply let him expound on his grand tour idea. As you said, keeping him in the game would have made for a much "juicier thread."

what's with all the newbies playing piano police? honestly.. it makes PW look bad.. like some clique-y icky site.

Strategically run ads at the time of year when people have parties.. (Christmas for instance), put up signs, sign up with party and wedding planners.

best of luck.

"it".. whatever it might be that got people worked up.

I think it's more like "What harm could he have possibly done?"

With no specific details I don't see how the post would qualify as an ad and clearly the moderators feel the same. No one really knows the OP's intention but if it was to solicit business, who cares? Some posters approach the OP's post with a reaction similar to a parent be lied to by their child or IMO an incredible degree of self righteousness.

I see no difference between the opening post, even if it's intention was to book recitals, and the numerous threads where people ask how best to sell their piano(assuming the post doesn't include lots of details about the piano). There have been tens of thousands of posts where the poster's self interest was far more evident than in the first post in this thread.

what's with the relatively new people playing PW police..? it seems very unwelcoming. I see no problem with the original question.

You might contact booking agents, party and wedding planners, running ads in small publications. I think wedding and event planners would be the best place to start.

Back when I was a kid (18) i ran an ad in an area of the Kansas City magazine for new businesses with a picture that said... "Piano playing - absolutely free! grands preferred." It was so cute and they printed it for free. I booked 14 parties and everyone paid me.. about 100 dollars.. I was in heaven. When i think that I was playing Chopin backwards (in a way) and had such a limited repertoire, I writhe in shame.
Best of luck to you. I am kind of embarrassed for this forum and sorry you had such a negative response to your question.

He was looking for "work" for his starving artist pianist, with home parties..
all he had to say was PM me if interested.. no harm no foul..

Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.


IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people."