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Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha #1900566
05/21/12 02:08 AM
05/21/12 02:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
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nocturne152 Offline OP
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nocturne152  Offline OP
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Posts: 447
I know you have probably been asked this a million times by various users, but would putting Renner hammers or Steinway hammers in a Yamaha make the sound more European? - and would it improve the quality of the sound drastically?


"The instrument should be your needle, and the music should be your addiction."

- Oscar Peterson
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Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900570
05/21/12 02:41 AM
05/21/12 02:41 AM
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Oakland
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BDB Offline
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Oakland
The idea of a piano sounding more or less European ignores the fact that there is a lot of variation between European pianos.

There is no magic to be had simply by replacing hammers. It is not a purely mechanical process. Hammers have to be fitted to the piano both physically and aurally. The latter fitting takes skill, and is individual to each piano.

Yamaha hammers respond very well to voicing, and a lot can and should be done to them by skilled voicing. Unfortunately, people think that miracles come from materials, rather than processes that take skill and practice to learn. A different material will give different results, but chances are that the person who cannot get satisfactory results with the given material, provided it is not worn out, cannot get satisfactory results with different material, either.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900630
05/21/12 08:13 AM
05/21/12 08:13 AM
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Posts: 12,655
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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What BDB says makes a lot of sense.

When I bought my vintage (1978) Yamaha C7, I saw evidence that it had been rebuilt at some point in its life. I’m not 100% sure, but I suspect the current hammers are the Renner hammers made for Yamaha pianos, as shown on their (Renner) web site. The hammers look exactly like the ones shown on the Renner website (the ones that have been pre-treated with hardener).

My piano sounds really good to me… not sure if it sounds European or not, but it is a blend of mellow and bright all at the same time, if that makes any sense.

I’m sure there are pianos that sound better than my C7, but I doubt if I could ever afford such an instrument.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900719
05/21/12 12:47 PM
05/21/12 12:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
Lowell MA
Larry Buck Offline
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Lowell MA
Hammers can and do make a tremendous difference.

Too often, replacement hammers are chosen for the incorrect reason, all too often.

Choice of hammer defines territory for voicing.

It is most important to first acquaint ones self with the sound you want and then and only then can hammer selection begin.

Rarely do I hear either enough of the right questions or appropriate answers.



"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

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Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900804
05/21/12 04:07 PM
05/21/12 04:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,901
Massachusetts
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Roy123 Offline
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Massachusetts
After many, many attempts to voice the original hammers on my Yamaha U1 by more than one experienced tech as well as yours truly, I replaced the Yamaha hammers with Ronsen Wurzen-felt hammers. I was pleased with the result, but I'm an amateur whose opinion in such matters is certainly not authoritative.

Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900835
05/21/12 05:33 PM
05/21/12 05:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,651
Delaware (slower/lower)
Ralph Offline
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Ralph  Offline
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Delaware (slower/lower)
Roy,

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. I fact, when it comes to your personal piano, it is the only opinion that counts.


Do or do not. There is no try.
Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900864
05/21/12 06:19 PM
05/21/12 06:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,520
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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This is a very interesting discussion I have been personally very interested in for a long time.

Here's some statements by Yamaha regarding it's new high end SE or SU line of pianos available in Europe:

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/mu...anos/se/?mode=series#tab=audio_and_video

According to this, selection of all kinds of high end components are very important to achieve superior tonality INCLUDING but not restricted to hammers.

Regarding hammers I have made personal experience with several makes that by using DIFFERENT type hammers - not necessarily "superior" in quality by themselves - different outcomes can indeed be achieved.

One should always bear in mind that there are a great deal of factors in achieving most desirable or "best" tone.

For better or worse, I have observed that hammers indeed are often a deciding factor in achieving these results.

That Yamaha has so far avoided using somebody else's including top German hammers,may well be company policy, perhaps also including a certain measure of 'pride'.

The outcome of it all is what counts in the end - unfortunately I have not yet had the pleasure to try one of Yamaha's new high end SE or SU series myself.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 05/21/12 06:27 PM.

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Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: Rickster] #1900919
05/21/12 08:41 PM
05/21/12 08:41 PM
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Indiana
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thetandyman Offline
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Indiana
Rick, you know the saying that happiness is being content with what you have. I feel that way about my piano. My feeling is this, "it's better than I deserve". This is contentment!


Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ
Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1900953
05/21/12 10:07 PM
05/21/12 10:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,655
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by thetandyman
Rick, you know the saying that happiness is being content with what you have. I feel that way about my piano. My feeling is this, "it's better than I deserve". This is contentment!

Very true…

Sometimes, when I hit a low bass note on my piano, I have to try hard not to drool, especially on the real ivory keys. laugh

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1901005
05/21/12 11:49 PM
05/21/12 11:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,626
Philadelphia area
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Dave B Offline
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Philadelphia area
Back when the Steinway hammers came out of the box very soft (squeezable), there were techs who successfully voiced the hammer to a warm quality. It's been at least 15yrs since I've heard of anyone doing this.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Re: Steinway/Renner hammers in a Yamaha [Re: nocturne152] #1901038
05/22/12 01:19 AM
05/22/12 01:19 AM
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Oakland
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BDB Offline
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It is not difficult. You can accomplish a lot with voicing, but it takes thought and practice.


Semipro Tech

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