Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
59 registered members (Agent88, Axel Ramge, Bill McKaig,RPT, barbaram, ando, 8 invisible), 1,672 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1898043 - 05/16/12 01:17 PM A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,182
Piano World Offline
Piano World  Offline



Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,182
Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
One of our new videos, created for us by pianist Robert Estrin.

This one talks about proper hand position for effortless piano playing.



See our new Videos Page




- Frank B.
Founder / Owner / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
ProRecord.info
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
www.linkedin.com/in/pianoworld
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
My Keyboards:
Estonia L-190 w/ ProRecord, Yamaha P-80, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit), Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
Invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!


(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1898052 - 05/16/12 01:40 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 223
HeirborneGroupie Offline
Full Member
HeirborneGroupie  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 223
Florida
Great video. Thanks. I can't wait for the next one.

I do have a question about my hand position. I mentioned this in another thread and received helpful answers but varied. My problem is this...when I play, my 5th finger sticks straight up. Actually, it's not only when I play. It seems to be a habit I formed while doing any number of things like typing, drinking out of a cup (not kidding grin), and more. It happens on both hands and I don't feel any tension although it's probably there. Some responses I've received have said not to worry about it and others say I should try to fix it. Are there exercises I can do to correct this? Everything I've tried so far has failed.

I hope I posted this in the correct place. Thanks for your time.


Carol
Kawai RX 2
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1898057 - 05/16/12 01:51 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,608
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member
shirlkirsten  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,608
Berkeley, California
I love the drop of the natural position of the hand.. exactly what I have discovered and work with all the time. Thank you for this priceless wisdom.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda
#1898074 - 05/16/12 02:31 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 748
ZoeCalgary Offline
500 Post Club Member
ZoeCalgary  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 748
Calgary Alberta
That was excellent! Thanks!


Preparing Grade 6 RCM.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1898229 - 05/16/12 06:26 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 44
fingerspitzngefuhl Offline
Full Member
fingerspitzngefuhl  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 44
Southern Northern California
Although I'm not real crazy about the *smallness* of my hands (can reach an octave) I'm actually glad I don't have long "spider fingers" because I think it's *so* easy for those who have them to fall into the habit of having straight/bent backward fingers.

Thanks for the video!



Yamaha P95
Just starting "piano advantures" - at page 50-60-odd.
#1898234 - 05/16/12 06:37 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,385
jotur Offline
Gold Level
jotur  Offline
Gold Level

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,385
Santa Fe, NM
Thanks, Frank! What a great idea these videos are! Some nice perspective there -

Cathy


Cathy
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Practice what you suck at - anonymous
#1898440 - 05/17/12 04:08 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member
Jean-Luc  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
France
Thank you very much for this very interesting video, very much appreciated smile


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
#1898454 - 05/17/12 05:31 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 339
Artur Gajewski Offline
Full Member
Artur Gajewski  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 339
Helsinki, Finland
Wow, I learned more from this video than by reading any piano related books smile Can't wait for more...

Last edited by Artur Gajewski; 05/17/12 05:31 AM.
#1899048 - 05/18/12 05:50 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,538
zrtf90 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
zrtf90  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,538
Ireland (ex England)
What a wonderful presenter! He has a very natural enthusiasm. I look forward to more of these.



Richard
#1899049 - 05/18/12 05:53 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 339
Artur Gajewski Offline
Full Member
Artur Gajewski  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 339
Helsinki, Finland
I would love to hear what topics other videos will be of. Thank you Robert!

#1899166 - 05/18/12 10:19 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
Canada
I like the idea of an effort-free way of getting a basic hand shape, and the idea of efficiency and how he relates this to the keyboard. At the same time I have some questions and observations.

Some time back I learned a new instrument and after a year I learned things from the Internet. A lot of the advice was good, but I understood it too literally and didn't know that things vary according to other things going on. If the same thing is given by a teacher, then he'll observe and have you adjust things. Sometimes I understood but wasn't doing what was in the book or video, but didn't know it - and sometimes I only thought I understood. I got into some problems even when the stuff was good, AND I gained from it.

This leads to questions (clarification) for Mr. Estrin: I get what you are saying about this way of forming the hand bringing you into an efficient area of the keyboard, and why that is efficient. But I might also get the idea that we restrict ourselves to having the hands in that area when playing anything. I'm thinking that you intend this more like a home base and a general starting point - is this right?

At this moment I am learning to move in and out of the black key area according to the music I am playing, and have been encouraged to watch good pianists. So this idea of staying in one area really struck me. Then when I watched you play, Mr. Estrin, I saw that this region of the keyboard looked like your home base, but that you moved freely in and out (I watched the left hand, and other videos). So this made me think that you are giving a first home base which is a good place to be generally, and some first good principals. But NOT to stay only in that area no matter what. Is that correct?

#1899919 - 05/19/12 05:28 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,045
CarlosCC Offline
2000 Post Club Member
CarlosCC  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,045
Lisbon, Portugal
Thanks for this new video page!


[Linked Image]
SoundCloud | Youtube
Self-taught since Dec2009
"Don't play what's there, play what's not there."
#1899958 - 05/19/12 06:55 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: HeirborneGroupie]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2
bobestrin Offline
Junior Member
bobestrin  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2
Orange County, California
I really appreciate all the comments on the video. There will be more videos coming soon on a wide range of topics including memorization, sightreading and more. What I showed in this video is an approach to the keyboard that offers the most relaxed position requiring minimal effort to maintain. It also places the fingers where they can easily reach black and white keys with equal ease. However, this is an ideal to strive for. Watching some of the greatest pianos of all time, like Vladimir Horowitz, you will see interesting deviations on these ideals. If you don't sense tension as in the raised 5th finger, it may not be a problem. If you would like to try achieving a more perfect hand position, try slow practice. This gives you an opportunity to study your hands and work on being over the keys so your fingers have the minimal distance and effort in playing. You can work on hand position with your music as well as with scales and arpeggios.

Last edited by bobestrin; 05/19/12 07:02 PM.
#1900007 - 05/19/12 09:21 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: keystring]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by keystring
This leads to questions (clarification) for Mr. Estrin: I get what you are saying about this way of forming the hand bringing you into an efficient area of the keyboard, and why that is efficient. But I might also get the idea that we restrict ourselves to having the hands in that area when playing anything. I'm thinking that you intend this more like a home base and a general starting point - is this right?

At this moment I am learning to move in and out of the black key area according to the music I am playing, and have been encouraged to watch good pianists. So this idea of staying in one area really struck me. Then when I watched you play, Mr. Estrin, I saw that this region of the keyboard looked like your home base, but that you moved freely in and out (I watched the left hand, and other videos). So this made me think that you are giving a first home base which is a good place to be generally, and some first good principals. But NOT to stay only in that area no matter what. Is that correct?


I'd say categorically - YES! Like many things this is something of an ideal which you strive to return to; but if you were to try to play everything like that you would fail.

My teacher keeps talking to me about the various touché (she's not French but uses that word) to use when playing different passages. Sometimes you will need more rounded fingers, sometimes flatter ones. As you note you'll need to adjust your handshape as you move into and out of the black keys. And, of course, stretches will cause adjustments too.

It does make me laugh a little bit when people talk about no longer playing as if there is a ball in your hand and similar things which must have gone out of style 30 years ago ... unless there are some really bad teachers out there!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1900044 - 05/19/12 10:54 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
Canada
I'm not sure my question was understood. I was not talking about the shape of the hand but the region of the keyboard. The video talks about not moving into the black key area but rather always staying in the white key area in front.

#1900139 - 05/20/12 08:01 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,538
zrtf90 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
zrtf90  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,538
Ireland (ex England)
What the video talks about, keystring, is keeping the fingers at or near that part of the keyboard where the black and white keys meet as a default position. Bob did touch, very lightly, on it in his repsonse:

Originally Posted by bobestrin
It also places the fingers where they can easily reach black and white keys with equal ease. However, this is an ideal to strive for.


This parallels the 'minimum movement principle' in guitar playing and keeping the index fingers on the embossed keys (F and J) when touch typing. From this position the fingers can readily be curled for a Bach type touch, lengthened for a Liszt type touch and reach black keys and white keys with equal facility. It also places the fingers in the best position for knowing where they are on the keyboard from touching the adjacent black keys and feeling the B/C and E/F gaps.



Richard
#1900205 - 05/20/12 10:54 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
Canada
I think I finally got the video they way it was intended. I was thrown by "to keep the hand at the point...." as advice to keep the hands at that line in front of the black keys. But now I understand that Bob is saying that having this shape to the hand ALLOWS you to be in this area of the keyboard from where you can reach both white and black keys with ease. So if your hand is spread with flat fingers for those kinds of passages, then the fact that the pinky is short placing it near the edge, and the middle finger is long, would force you to move in and out excessively because you * could not * easily reach all keys with all fingers with those flat fingers. So it is not an instruction to have the hand there, but that for many passages, this shape of the hand makes it possible to have this home position.

As I wrote, when I started my first instrument I followed some on-line things and things in books which I understood wrongly and this created mischief. For that reason I'm very careful about how I understand things.

There is another interesting thing about this video. That is, when Bob demonstrates how to get this hand shape, the down motion is at the wrist which is what we want to feel at the piano. Not so long ago, having learned self-taught as a child, I didn't have that. I only got that recently. Two weeks ago, if I had tried to do what the video says, I would have either braced my fingers insanely making them stiff, of I would have collapsed at the knuckles as I would try to pull the hand down - because I didn't have that feeling in the wrist. I would have thought I was doing what the video says. When I first tried what the demo shows, I was doing both of those things because they're my old habit. It felt "bad" because now I know what "good" feels like. Shirley had mentioned the wrist, so I noticed the wrist - and then I got something that looked good and also felt good. At that point it actually became something to help me get that new thing in the wrist.

I think Bob addresses something very important because people are caught between the old "as if holding a ball" which is "out" because it often leads to stiff rigidity, and a "like your hand hangs at your side" which is sort of nowhere. So this gives us the shape but with a good feel to it (if we can reach it the right way) and also a *reason". Now I feel that I have actually understood that video.

Oh - and thank you, Bob Estrin.

#1900470 - 05/20/12 08:42 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 260
KeysAngler Offline
Full Member
KeysAngler  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 260
The Fabulous Florida Keys
Fantastic work !!!

Thank you very much.

#1911534 - 06/10/12 04:26 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member
John_In_Montreal  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Montreal Canada
Hi Frank, and Everyone,

What a strange coincidence... I was browsing the web this week and happened to come upon this website . Now I bump into this thread today and who do I see? the same person / teacher smile.

Very good videos on Robert's website by the way - scroll down to near bottom of page, right-hand pane: "Piano playing technique" and "Practicing the piano".

John

Last edited by John_In_Montreal; 06/10/12 04:27 PM.

"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.
#1911561 - 06/10/12 05:05 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,182
Piano World Offline
Piano World  Offline



Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,182
Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Hi John,

Yes, Robert is making a series of videos for us.
I agree, he does a nice job.



- Frank B.
Founder / Owner / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
ProRecord.info
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
www.linkedin.com/in/pianoworld
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
My Keyboards:
Estonia L-190 w/ ProRecord, Yamaha P-80, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit), Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
Invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!


#1911726 - 06/11/12 05:19 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member
John_In_Montreal  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Montreal Canada
Originally Posted by Piano World
Hi John,

Yes, Robert is making a series of videos for us.
I agree, he does a nice job.



That is mighty nice of him smile Thank You, Robert, for taking the time to share your knowledge and humour with us! Looking forward to more of your videos.

John


"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.
#1912457 - 06/12/12 04:49 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 758
Stephen Hazel Offline
500 Post Club Member
Stephen Hazel  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 758
Seattle-ish, WA
Me too! Those videos are GREAT !!!!!

Lookin forward to MORE !!


http://PianoCheetah.com - my weird piano practice program
#1912691 - 06/13/12 05:56 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member
Jean-Luc  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
France
I just watched the two new videos, very interesting and pleasantly presented, thank you very much smile


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
#1912705 - 06/13/12 06:37 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,614
griffin2417 Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012
griffin2417  Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 29 2012


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,614
Minneapolis, MN

The videos are great Frank! Good information. Thanks!



Carl

#1915581 - 06/19/12 04:33 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014
Bobpickle  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Cameron Park, California
He's a passionate and fun to watch teacher (doubly so when he plays my favorite Schubert impromptu). I enjoy his youtube series


"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."
#1921840 - 07/02/12 02:39 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5
chordelia Offline
Junior Member
chordelia  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5
United Kingdom
Wow Thank you! That is great information and makes such good sense.

Wonderful-look forward to more too.

#1921921 - 07/02/12 06:00 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 452
thetandyman Offline
Full Member
thetandyman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 452
Indiana
I love to soak up every video Robert Estrin posts, from moving, brand comparison, and the hand position film. He's a treasure for pianists


Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ
#1946442 - 08/20/12 08:48 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: thetandyman]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
LOVED the video! I am so grateful for this- really really needed to know all that- been having the wrong hand position for ages!
I find Robert very engaging and interesting to learn from- many many thanks to him! I look forward to more.

Last edited by EdwardianPiano; 08/20/12 08:51 PM.

https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#1947732 - 08/23/12 08:54 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 62
Stephen300o Offline
Full Member
Stephen300o  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 62
My inspiration to take up the piano is Tom Waits, but he doesn't exactly have textbook technique..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LySDkDuqLCE

#1949302 - 08/26/12 09:39 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Andy Platt]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
lrao Offline
Junior Member
lrao  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
Hi, Robert. Thank you for the informative video. If you are thinking of other videos to produce, I would like to make a recommendation - could you explain the circle of 5ths to adults possibly who are learning theory? I know this is a far cry from hand position but theory questions are more difficult for me to grasp as an adult than when I was a kid.

Thanks again.

#1964871 - 09/26/12 03:27 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Olly Wedgwood Offline
Full Member
Olly Wedgwood  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
UK - London
Excellent video! I've been playing for over 20 years and nobody really explained this to me... Thanks so much for sharing!
Olly


Writing fun and original jazzy, bluesy, soulful and latin piano sheets at OllysPianoSheets.com smile
#1967558 - 10/01/12 09:42 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chopinlover49  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
So far I have watched every video Robert Estrin has done this past year or two and I love them. I just wish there were more and perhaps a well-illustrated book for sale because I am self-taught and can use a lot of help.

#1985523 - 11/11/12 09:06 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Stephen300o]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 513
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member
aTallGuyNH  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 513
Originally Posted by Stephen300o
My inspiration to take up the piano is Tom Waits, but he doesn't exactly have textbook technique..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LySDkDuqLCE


Woooooooooooooowwww!!!!!

So many things to say...

Do you think they brought out the tuner/tech between numbers?

Wouldn't you love to tag along with Tom for piano shopping?

Hopefully you don't emulate on your own piano!?!

Ever wonder what feedback you'd get if you posted this to the Tuner/Tech Forum?


"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

[Linked Image]XXIX-XXXII
#2014631 - 01/14/13 08:40 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: HeirborneGroupie]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
Daniel Johnson III Offline
Junior Member
Daniel Johnson III  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
Maryland, Resident of the U.S.


Visit My Website For My Free Piano Training Course
http://www.danspianotutorials.com/subscribe.html
#2016806 - 01/18/13 04:31 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 46
Bruce Siegel Offline
Full Member
Bruce Siegel  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 46
Los Angeles
Hi everyone,

I agree that Robert's video is excellent. I particularly like that he stresses the importance of getting maximum results with minimum effort.

And there's another aspect to this: using the weight of your arm to produce tone. When you stop pushing downwards on the key, and instead, let gravity do the work, you stay relaxed, and you also gain greater control over dynamics.

Here's a video I created that demonstrates this approach. I hope some of you find it helpful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4_LdrP0c1A

By the way, someone here talks about a problem with their pinky sticking straight up. Using arm weight may help to overcome this problem. And that's because when you play by releasing weight (rather than pushing), you're constantly sending the message to your body: Release. Let go. Relax.

And that includes even your pinky. :o)

So relaxation gets "built into" your technique in the most fundamental way possible, and that can only be a good thing!

--Bruce

#2050835 - 03/19/13 12:26 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16
Mark Green Offline
Junior Member
Mark Green  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16
Jamaica
This is quality.thanks guys smile


Be The Piano Genius You Have Always Been Dreaming About:
http://pianoforeveryone.blogspot.com/
#2057590 - 03/31/13 10:41 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 248
ElleC Offline
Full Member
ElleC  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 248
NJ, USA
wonderful video! especially helpful for adult beginners like myself. thank you!!


Adult beginner since January 2013. My only regret is that I didn't learn sooner.
#2088453 - 05/25/13 06:31 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 215
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member
Daniel Corban  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 215
Canada
I also have the problem of the "teacup pinkie" on my right hand only. I'm wondering if it will cause trouble down the road. I am not currently noticing any problems.


Playing: Yamaha GC2
#2088478 - 05/25/13 08:42 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 551
Wuffski Offline
500 Post Club Member
Wuffski  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 551
Europe (Northern Spain)
My teacher told me about the "pinkie", that it would the result of a too tense hand. I think that it could disappear by having much more routine in piano playing, and thus approaching it much more relaxed. My teacher advised me to routinely do some excercises (scales and arpegios) in which I fully concentrate on posture (full body to finger tip), and within this of course concentrating also on hand and finger posture. I get corrected on this each lesson again. Corrections became by time so subtle, that I sometimes wonder what it would be what is still not good, but my teacher really insists on it to maximum detail. It´s hard for me to say WHAT I changed over time, but yes, the pinkie is disappearing. I now only suffer it on new pieces and hard passages, which supports my teacher´s view that it is all about playing relaxed.

#2089005 - 05/26/13 03:11 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Clayman Offline
Full Member
Clayman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Prague, Czech Rep.
I enjoy these videos very much. Robert Estrin is a really cool guy that knows how to make learning fun. I hope you keep these vids coming. smile


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
#2101487 - 06/12/13 12:54 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13
music producer Offline
Junior Member
music producer  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13
During my years taking piano lessons, I had some good teachers, and one great teacher. His name was Alexander Mlynarski; the piano teacher lineage went back through Paderewski, and on back many generations to Beethoven, according to my teacher (whom I have no reason to doubt).

He taught that my hand should be shaped as though I were holding a large orange. Wrist low, knuckles high, elbows out slightly, hand always relaxed when possible between playing and sustaining chords.

#2110941 - 07/01/13 12:12 AM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 430
Palmpirate Offline
Full Member
Palmpirate  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 430
B.C.Canada
Thanks robert . Video lessons on these aspects of piano really help. I recently came back to piano playing and my new teacher as an adult taught me about playing with 'calm hands' I was quick to get his meaning since I've done a lot of yoga and body training. I know what releasing tension feels like but never thought about it in my piano playing before. It is true you really can play for hours without getting fatigued. Now I am no longer with that teacher your videos help re-inforce the great lessons I have learned lately. I will look forwar to more of your tips and tricks!


[Linked Image]

#2124008 - 07/27/13 09:40 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: HeirborneGroupie]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 21
Steve Armstrong Offline
Full Member
Steve Armstrong  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 21
I know this is very late but I think you will find helpful...

I say fix. For your finger to stick up, it must be tense, tension = bad tone and damage to muscles. It is also inefficient. You just need to strengthen it with isolation exercises, which, of course will take more than a couple of weeks before you have some marked improvement.

e.g. 1. play a triad and while holding the bottom two keys down, play your fifth several times, slowly, but firmly. Then once comfortable, double-tap your fifth with dotted rhythms i.e. dotted-quaver and semiquaver and then reverse. (double-dotted is even better). You MUST lift your fifth straight up and curved, DO NOT flap it out in an arch. Pull it straight up.

The fifth finger itself, however, is not the only problem. The 3rd and 4th fingers are very lazy and very clumsy.

E.g. 2. Download Delioux op. 86 from imslp.org and flick through that. Part I Series I is very good. (Pick out exercises for 3,4, and 5 individually and also combined).

If your 5th finger lifts to help your 4th lift and then relaxes as your 4th finger strikes then that's ok: holding it up and straight is not ok. If it helps your 4th then it must play exactly with your 4th as though strapped to it.

I hope that helps smile



Prokofiev Seventh
Franck Prelude, Choral and Fugue
#2138858 - 08/25/13 03:03 PM Re: A New PW Video on Proper Hand Position for Piano Playing [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 47
Philm35 Offline
Full Member
Philm35  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 47
Cincinnati, OH
Thanks, Robert, for this enormously helpful video. I look forward to seeing more!

Cheers,

--Phil


=====================
Rank Amateur Noodler
Howard/Kawai 550 "Tier 5"
Yamaha Motif XF-8
=====================
#2139391 - 08/26/13 07:09 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 43
Ahmediy Offline
Full Member
Ahmediy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 43
These videos are wonderful.
Robert is a very good player and teacher.
Thanks!

#2143683 - 09/03/13 08:51 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
howtotuneaguitar Offline
Junior Member
howtotuneaguitar  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
New Zealand
Online learning provides many advantages to everybody. First of all there are numerous software packages to choose from, which provide the required help in playing the piano. Online piano lessons will work out to be cost effective and provide an effective way in mastering techniques which relate to this musical instrument.

Another major advantage of an online piano lesson is that you can do it from any part of the world. You also do not require superior hardware configurations to download the software packages for online piano learning. What is even better is that you can access the various piano lesson packages from the online “shops” any time of the day or night.

#2151099 - 09/16/13 07:07 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Andy Platt]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 581
Doritos Flavoured Offline
500 Post Club Member
Doritos Flavoured  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 581
Brazil
Originally Posted by Andy Platt

It does make me laugh a little bit when people talk about no longer playing as if there is a ball in your hand and similar things which must have gone out of style 30 years ago ... unless there are some really bad teachers out there!


it's specially laughable when we know that Byrd and his contemporaries used flat fingers to play the keyboard

fads...


unlocked by keys
wordless poetry sings free
- piano music -
#2154339 - 09/20/13 09:33 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Barry1963 Offline
Full Member
Barry1963  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Nashville, Tennessee
appreciate the video !!


start date: August 25th 2013
currently Alfreds book #1
Hallet & Davis Co , spinet
#2154969 - 09/21/13 10:13 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 23
Steve Warner Offline
Full Member
Steve Warner  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 23
New York, New York
Excellent video!

#2179411 - 11/09/13 01:54 AM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1
Berb Offline
Junior Member
Berb  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1
Malaysia
Hi, thanks for the video sharing, Seems like finally i've found the right
info. Kindly share more info soon

#2179631 - 11/09/13 02:44 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Carlinton Offline
Junior Member
Carlinton  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Jamaica
I love this video! I enjoy every minute of it! laugh
My students would benefit greatly from this video. So the question is --> Can I share it on my website?

Thank you!
All the best!

Carlinton
http://www.choose-piano-lessons.com/piano-exercises.html

Last edited by Carlinton; 11/09/13 02:44 PM.
#2181820 - 11/13/13 05:32 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 9
careezma Offline
Junior Member
careezma  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 9
Banned
“The Easiest and Most Effective way to Learn Piano & Keyboard Online” http://pianoforallbuy.blogspot.com/

Last edited by careezma; 11/13/13 05:32 PM.
#2213971 - 01/13/14 12:36 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,768
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,768
New York City
At the beginning of the video Estrin mentions Horowitz's flat fingered playing but then Estrin seems to recommend a more curved fingers approach. Does this mean he thinks Horowitz played incorrectly or was some kind of exception to the rule or was able to play the way he did despite some technical flaw or...? I think leaving an explanation of this out makes the video somewhat unclear.

There are also other pianists who use a more flat fingered approach although none as famous as Horowitz.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/13/14 12:40 PM.
#2214576 - 01/14/14 01:03 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 848
Miguel Rey Offline
500 Post Club Member
Miguel Rey  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 848
I think he fails to mention that both curved and flattened fingers can be used depending on what is being played. I've read books and have noticed some professionals using both.

The Melody Hand is weighty and 'dead,' so to speak. The touch is made with flat fingers; the ball of the finger comes in contact with the key, the whole arm, hand and fingers are relaxedas loose as possible. You caress the keys as though you loved them, as though they were a very part of you; you cling to them as to something soft, velvety or downywith pressure, pressure, pressure, always."

The technical hand employs finger touch and finger action; the hand is held up, in military position, so to speak; the finger movements are quick, alert and exact; the hand is alive, not dead and heavy, as is the melody hand. The two ways of playing are quite opposite in their fundamental character, but they can be modified and blended in endless ways."For the technical or coloratura touch, the hand is in arched position, the five fingers are well rounded and curved, their tips are on the keys, everything is rounded. When a finger is lifted, it naturally assumes a more rounded position until it descends to the same spot on the key from which it was lifted, as though there were five little imaginary black spots on the keys, showing exactly where the finger-tips should rest. The fingers are lifted cleanly and evenly and fall on the keysno hitting nor striking. I make a great distinction between the coloratura touch and the melody touch. The first is for rapid, brilliant passage work, sparkling, glittering, iridescent what you willbut cold. It is made, as I said, with arched hand and raised finger action. Melody touch expresses warmth and feeling; is from the heart. Then there are the down and up arm movements, for chords, and, of course, scale and arpeggio work, with coloratura touch

Thuel Burnham




#2217215 - 01/19/14 03:52 PM Re: A New Short PW Video on Piano Playing Technique [Re: Piano World]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,604
Dave B Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Dave B  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,604
Philadelphia area
Great video, thanks! "The magical line where the white keys meet the black keys." Amazing.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
New Chinese made Baldwin 7 foot grand
by 7naturals. 11/22/17 01:23 AM
Moonlight Sonata Sostenuto
by Weiyan. 11/22/17 12:53 AM
Experience with Redbird, Concertpianos, and “Maestro”?
by Duke of Dunning. 11/21/17 06:26 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,879
Posts2,673,447
Members89,168
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0