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Very well said, as it fits the bill for many players.

@Kona_V-Piano,

You are right about Roland not doing much of anything to add some additional presets to the V, although my guess would be that the current technology (in regards to the modeling in the V) has not been updated yet, meaning that there are probably no new or significant changes in that technology.

It may be a while yet before Roland develops a new digital with a different (and, updated) sound engine, as that's up to R&D in Japan to decide on those details. Everybody wants to know "when" this technology will evolve again, so that remains the big "?" for now.

Even so, I am sticking with the current V until I see anything that looks to be similar (or, equal) to what it does...

You never know but the V-Piano may yet prove to be a defining kind of "concorde moment" where it is the pinnacle of the hardware stage piano. Notwithstanding my personal objections to the tone of the thing it is a technical tour-de-force. And if the cost of development and production is the direct cause of its high price, its relative market failure might cause others to think long and hard before trying to emulate it. And this might also explain Roland's apparent retreat from it.

I'm quite tempted to say that if I still had mine at this stage of the game I might keep it because of what it represents. Just some random thoughts anyway...

In this vid (awful sound quality), the pianist does say that he knows that Roland are working on refinements but I don't know when the interview was done. He may have been referring to the Evolution updates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w_cUQOV-xM

Open question: would V-Piano owners be willing to pay for future upgrades? If not, I cannot see the business case for Roland investing money in R & D to provide software updates for customers who are already happy with the sound and possibilities that their instrument provides.

as the non-classical player inelegantly put it: "you're s**tting me, right?"

i paid enough already. doing magical things to the software might get me to buy a more portable version in the future. doing nothing with the OS won't get me to do that, for certain.

Software was MADE to be UPDATED! keep the user close to you. granted, this isn't a free iphone app, but still, you can give us something once a year to play with.

essbrace, you may very well be correct in your assumption. If in a few years we get nothing new in terms of modeling tech enhancements be it a new model or an update to the currrent V, and the supernatural line continues to sell well, not even Yamaha will want to change their current sampling/hybrid DP's anytime soon. It is common sense to keep the status quo as long as possible, that is why 64 to 128 polyphony and sampled sounds have been the norm now without much change for the last ten years.

There is still yet a window where Roland can get back into the game of trying to jump start the idea of modeling as the future. It just needs to happen sooner rather than later.

I think Roland made a fundamental mistake with the pricing of the V-Piano. They made it way too expensive. If it sounded for all intents and purposes like the real thing, then they could justify the price, but it doesn't (still a very good DP though). Now, because of poor sales (??) it will be more difficult for Roland to justify putting a lot of money and effort into a V-Piano2.
I think it's less likely that we'll see an update in the near future. Just look in general at the digital emulation development the last years. Not a lot of improvement in realism as far as I can hear. You get the new VA/synth or hammond clone every other year, but the sonical improvements are minimal at best IMO.
For a new V-Piano there would have to be fairly drastic changes to the sound and/or setup, I just don't see that happening in the next few years.
Considering also the rate of development in DSP/CPU area, I would personally be hesitant to buy a modelled piano using old technology. So that begs the question, how many more years can Roland sell a digital piano for that crazy price with "old" DSP technology? I wouldn't be suprised if Roland just let the V-Piano silently fade out into the DP horizon .

Well my AvantGrand N1 hooked to the Nord Piano 2 is better than all of your boards, so take that!

Jokes aside, we each hear differently. I've probably played a combined 15 hours on V-Pianos since they've been released and I can't get ver the awful mids. I even spent almost 2 hours setting up the V-Piano using Bennevis's presets, which by the way is a much appreciated and thoughtful task, thumbs up there. Even then, the V still had the same flawed tone. A rather cold, metalliness, and sterile sound overall. But again, that's what my ears hear. YMMV.

I believe the V exceeds all others in how the sound behaves and how it responds to touch. Roland did a fantastic job with it there.

Zachary, your setup sort of reminds me of the space shuttle being flown around on top of a 747.....

I know Paul well and I've never seen him with a V-piano .... might be a Roland thing indeed.

Not exactly remember that the software was the basis of the Supernatural sound that is their main piano these days. The V was used to develop the SN ...they are linked.

Utter complete total rubbish ...

Correct, the research and development of the V-piano also helped enhance their current sampled piano sound.

http://www.roland.com/piano/SuperNATURAL_Piano.html



LOL, I'm pretty sure he has one in his home studio unless the walk-through he allowed the video cameras that went into his home was all for show.

Excessive use of emotions - a sure sign of someone making a shaky point.

You are making a very shaky point, mister.

You guys are pretty entertaining. Turning my TV off. Click!

U think ? Tell me how ... shaky one
On second thoughts ....just don't
I couldn't give a ....

Looks like that other YouTube link (posted earlier) doesn't show Paul Mirkovich demonstrating a V-Piano, although this one does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd04PNZNQ3M

And, here's one by Rick DePiro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igf6OyT0Q-k

And, Adam Berzowski:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEwTaSmnoo

And, Robert Werner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVijTYsZCQM

And, Rolf Zielke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Gec7RDVnw

Also, John Maul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzi74I7RYIw

Yana Reznik:*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9fnw0-Hqiw

Who is this?**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mh5vVhYJRw

All are professional musicians.

Extra notes:

*Concert pianist.

**Very good!

As far as I know, Roland's V-Piano Grand was, and still is, the only DP that was introduced to the world in a series of classical concerts in several cities in 21 countries from Sweden, Russia and China to Australia and Brazil, in all continents except Antarctica (though I suspect the British Antarctic Survey has a V-P Grand on order.... ). There's no sterner test of a DP than to present it in a concert hall under concert conditions, with virtuosic repertoire played by a classical pianist just like a Steinway D would: using its own speakers only, no manipulation and no external amplification. (Classical concerts are never miked/amplified except in unusual venues like Olympic stadiums).

That was just last year, and I think Roland, having put so much money into that concept (and managing to persuade so many established classical concert pianists - normally completely adverse to touching DPs - in so many countries to play the V-P Grand) has no intention of letting the V-Piano go anytime soon.

And to be frank, classical musicians do use their instruments differently: some of the posts in this thread leave me scratching my head. Is a piano for making music with, and does one regard a good piano as one that allows you to express yourself fully and musically and realize the composers' intentions, and doesn't impede your ability to do so (assuming you have the technical ability)? Or is it merely something that just produces a nice sound that you can enjoy as you tinker the keyboard, and when you eventually get bored, to have the sound changed/upgraded?

Classical pianists don't 'upgrade' their pianos every year, and don't get bored with the sounds they make. After all, they are in control of the sounds that come out, not a silicon chip.

I for one am perfectly happy with the sound of my V-Piano, and just wish there were more hours in the day so I can learn more repertoire and improve my technique. Making all those customizations of acoustic concert grand pianos was really just a sideline for me, not my reason to purchase the V-Piano. The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.

I'd like to add that the V-Piano produces the exact same sound as the V-Piano Grand to my ears. Now I even know that if you take a real Grand Piano that is perfectly in tune and was chosen by you after trying out multiple brands so you can choose whether you like a brighter or warmer sound will always be better than anything speakers connected to a DP can produce. However not everyone has the money to buy their very own Grand Piano and even less would have enough space to put one in their home.

That is where the strengh lies with the V-Piano. As bennevis said, it feels and behaves just like an acoustic and you can hear this very easily after playing it and moving to any other sampled piano sound. Even if you move to Rolands very own SuperNatural piano sound which is based off of the V, it still is missing that organic sound and feel the piano has.

Now the way a piano sounds And whether one actually likes the way it sounds is a very personal thing. You can spend a year playing 100 different Grands and still perhaps not be able to choose just one as a favorite. You may have multiple favorites. With the V-Piano, you can have almost any Type of piano sound you prefer on that day, however after a couple months, you'll have chosen perhaps two or three that you go back and forth on depending of the song.. I for one love the way my Yamaha CLP990 sounds and still do. You would think the V-Piano whose two main piano sounds in Vintage 1 and Vintage 2 which are based off of two very different sounding piano boards that are not Yamaha Grands would be impossible to mimic and change to make it sound like a Yamaha. However I can go back and forth from my V-Piano to my CLP990 and get an almost 95% match. The only part of the sound I cannot change to match to make it a 99% match has to do with how the sounds are mixed together in the CLP990. There is a seperate sounboard mic which was used to capture this reverberation that is looped and is unnatural sounding when played under certain conditions. I got used to it and have learned to like its unique sound, however it is not reproducible on s real acoustic, so the V cannot mimic it. Also the looping of the actual piano string resonace decaying is heard repeating as well. An entire thread in this forum is stickied and one of the measures of greatness in DP sound is how long the samples last before they are looped. Because that looping is what drives some people batty and those refuse to play DP's or even recognize them. I am thankfully not one of those, however I can understand the feeling. Over the years of switching from Acoustic Grands to sampled DP's I have grown acustomed to hearing this looping and cannot avoid hearing it. Now even the AvantGrand series does not get rid of it as it uses samples.

Now after many visits to Sam Ashe while taking my own high end headphones, I played the V-Piano looking for any faults and whether it was worthy of me to spend all the money I did on it. Almost two years after its debut, I purchased one. The one at the Sam Ashe did not even have the Evolution update, so it was a nice surpise to have new sounds when it arrived.

Now after all of the different tweaks bennevis has made in the sounds using mainly the two main presets, it should be very easy to find the piano sound you like. If you love the way the Yamaha's sound, I can be honest and tell you it is possible to get very close in matching it. I will make a recording of both the CLP990 and the V-Piano playing the same song over the summer so you can hear what I mean. Granted my Clavinova sounds better over its speakers than headphones just as the AG series does as well.

A lot of attention and money has been spent by Roland to market the V-Piano Grand at different venues around the world for classical music. Perhaps it is safe to say Roland still supports the V-Piano, just not directly as its focus in on the Grand, which is for all intents and purposes the same thing, without the cabinet and speakers. It will be interesting to see if the V-Piano gets shown some attention ever again or if the focus will stay on the Grand in terms of marketing.

Oh yes? Well, please post recordings of both and let us all be the judge of what a "95% match" sounds like. I'd really be VERY interested in hearing that particular comparison.