Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700

Thanks it was Tim, I originally I asked about the Kawai CE220, or clp 430. He could of pushed the Kawai which was more expensive than the Casio(which he also sells) but he recommended the Casio (which was the least expensive) because the quality was similar but the functionality that I wanted for the kids was better.

[Edited]

Hi just a quick note the price I quoted was for the Guitar center, not Tim, I don't mind quoting guitar centers offer because they are a public retailer.

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't make the right choice or that you didn't get a good deal. It sounds like you did your homework.

My comment was more a reaction to comming across his review web site which steers people to only the products he sells without really disclosing that he's a dealer or that he doesn't sell the products he advises against. He also advises against some digital pianos that have a pretty broad consensus as best in class in favor of products that he sells.

To me that's shady at best.

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Quote below this post* has been changed to:

"The short decay in the Casio AP-620 will definitely be noticed by advanced players as it is not sufficient for sustaining long melodic lines and heavier chordal passages."

*[I agree with "dmd" below.]

Well, I beg to differ with you on the part.

I made the mistake of going by the hype on the internet about the AP620, purchased it, put it together, and sold it all in the same week (at a considerable loss).

I am nothing special as a piano player, but I could not live with the decay issue. In fairness, the person I sold it to ... tried it and loved it and drove away with it a very happy person. In my opinion, it is fine for fast, banging, type of music but not slow, delicate classical pieces.

It will be "fun" for the kids, but I have my doubts with any serious playing.

Well in the end we can only judge him by how he behaves, so far he has been upfront and honest, I will update you once I have the DP

I wish I knew what decay is, then I could get more worried. It will be a pity if the slow delicate classical pieces suffer because that it my personal preference but in the end it is for my kids education so I am willing to make that compromise so that they can have the chance to explore all music options beyond the piano.

[Edited]

You probably won't notice or care much about the sustaining of notes. Most digitals even if they have long decay do not sound natural because of looping which becomes very obvious in order to sustain the note. What it comes down to with a digital is that you are playing a sampled tone instead of actually striking a string like on an acoustic. Since the sound is produced electronically instead of naturally, there are limitations on how it can be reproduced faithfully. Also the piano samples are layered meaning that the notes are recorded at different velocity levels (3 or 4 layers is common) which limits the dynamic range of all digitals. If you become concerned or maybe tired of the sample of your digital, you can connect the piano to a computer and use a software synth called a VST which has much better sound and dynamic range. This is what most of us do when we get tired of our digital piano internal sound.

Wow you guys really know your stuff, but I think the decision is actually very easy. For around 1200 can you get a DP with better piano acoustics and same degree of functionality as the AP620? If so I would like to know what it is and I will buy it.

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Quoted post below has been changed to this:

"The Kawai EP3/ES7 is a better choice than the AP-620, since the Kawai's have far better tonal decay and harmonic resonance."

Other than the furniture quality cabinet, is the AP620 much different than the PX-330?

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I was under the impression that all the actions on all the Casio's were the same, so if the OP wanted to spend less and didn't care about the furniture like case, they could get a PX-330 with the stand and pedal unit for cheaper.

I also believe that the Yamaha P155 gets a lot of love in the $1000 range, but that doesn't come with the case/stand and it doesn't have an extensive amount sounds to play around with. The trade off would be better action and main piano sound but loosing the bells and whistles along with a furniture like quality. There is a $100 stand though.

No!!!!!!!

[Edited]

Have confirmed that the Kawai EP3/ES7 is a better choice than either the Casio AP-620 (or, AP-650) due to the better tonal decay and harmonic resonance.

No longer recommend the Casio, as mentioned in the quote above.

I'll jump in again on the side of the 620 re: the decay issue. When I read that some people had issues with decaly length I went and timed the decay on mine. The bass notes take longer to decay than the treble, as on an acoustic piano, with the bass notes taking a little over 20 seconds to fade out and the trebles around 15 seconds. That is every bit as long as many acoustics, and far longer than any standard piece of music would require. As for "looping", it is not an issue for me. There is a pulse on a sustained note, again similar to what you would hear on an AP, but every note has a different rate of that pulse so if you are sustaining a chord those pulses, or beats, or whatever, combine and create a very complex pattern that is unique to whatever combination of notes you are holding. Again, in most actual literature, decay and looping would seldom have time to be heard since notes simply aren't sustained for 10 or 15 seconds. Since getting my 620 I have played a number of other DPs, including high end Rolands and Yamahas, (using my own headphones) and I prefer the sound and feel of my 620 to them.
One other thing I like is that, especially through headphones, there is a very realistic sound of the hammers hitting the backcheck, especially on the higher notes. That sort of "thunk", especially when you hit the key a little harder. It adds to the satisfaction and realism of it.
Enjoy! Let us know what you think when you have it. (also, I still like the M-Audio BX5a monitors, but I don't have a lot of experience with others.)

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Reply to post, above:

Note that 15 and 20 second decays in digital piano samples (Casio, or, otherwise) are far too short as compared with a real acoustic grand piano.

Only the Roland V-Piano & Kawai CA95 can simulate the longer decay times.

Your not going to believe this but before I signed the purchase order for the Casio I gave the Yamaha dealer a courtesy call (he was a great guy and showed the whole family his full range including a 1.5 million grand). The dealer (who is one of the best sales persons I have every met, and not in a sleazy way) then offered a additional and significant discount of the CLP-430 from the 2k he quoted. The discount is enough that price is not longer a issue in comparing it to the casio ap620 and it comes down to is the functionality of the casio worth more to us than the the real or perceived better sound quality and key action of the yamaha. I am getting a bit sick of dithering around with this decision so I will take one more look at the difference tonight and make a decision tomorrow. Thanks for your help everyone I really appreciate it.