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Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear
pv88 #1889013 04/30/12 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pv88
@Kona_V-Piano,

Sure would like to see some photos of the display V-Piano at your Sam Ash store, if you could somehow snap some pictures of the keys?

I imagine that a small cell phone (with built-in camera) would do the job!

This could be documented here, and, sent to Roland.


I don't think the Sam Ashe V-Piano would be cause for alarm from Roland as it has been played on by a hundred thousand people in and out of the Dolphin Mall. Every display piano there has keys that look old and dirty, however none worse than all the Roland's Ivory piano's. I don't know anybody that would purchase that used model unless they could get Roland to honor the warranty and have the keys replaced. I actually was going to purchase the V-piano they had new in the box from them a week before a manager there decided to open the second V-piano and place it on display. (silly to have two of them out) In one week, the brand new V-piano looked like it had been through he11 and had water cup stains on the top, and worse, two smashed corners from being removed from the box improperly. The stand wasn't built correctly either. Overall I am glad that happened as I ended up saving about a thousand dollars purchasing online.

Last edited by Kona_V-Piano; 04/30/12 06:18 PM.

Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90
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Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1891980 05/05/12 09:49 PM
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Hi pv88,

I have the same problem with my HP-305. I purchased it last year and had regular usage, not too often, for example, playing 1~2 hours every two or three days. Here is my picture, taken by iPhone:

Picture 1

Picture 2

I am in Beijing. I have contacted local Roland support and asked for a replacement. He didn't make a positive response and argued that I reported the issue too late so that he can't tell if this is due to bad use. I am disappointed and angry by his saying. I know there are cases in the forum and they have gotten a replacement, at least the support is willing to satisfy their customers.

Next I'm going to escalate the issue to a higher roland department/people, even to the corporate headquarter. But I don't know their contacts. Can you share how you do that? or give me advice how to take next action? Thank you!

Last edited by pianoismydream; 05/05/12 09:53 PM.
Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear
bennevis #1892009 05/05/12 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
My white keys (not the whole keybed) were individually replaced and have no wear whatsoever since then, despite some hard-hitting stuff......


Exactly what "WHITE KEYS" were used, and, why doesn't Roland (USA) service V-Pianos here in the same way?

Or, did the UK service tech just use some keys from another board?

Receiving a new set of keys that scratch up is unacceptable.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pianoismydream #1892019 05/06/12 12:02 AM
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@pianoismydream,

Thanks for the photos, as this is yet another example of the unacceptable key top material being used by Roland.

Sorry that I can't help you with your HP-305, however, you might have a better chance in getting a new set of resilient keys, since the V-Piano has a slightly different key bed than your model.

I am currently fighting a battle here in keeping a V-Piano, although it doesn't look very good if they can't come up with something to fix it. This has to be a permanent solution.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892037 05/06/12 01:33 AM
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Extra note:

Have just informed my original seller (gigasonic.com) that I would return the V-Piano if a permanent solution cannot be found for the deteriorating keys.

I am requesting that Roger Halvorson (from Roland Corp.) look into getting the "white key" replacements that bennevis received, in the UK.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892044 05/06/12 02:10 AM
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pv88, with the greatest respect, I don't believe it is the purpose of this forum to air your grievances about Roland.

Clearly you are unsatisfied with the key surfaces of your V-Piano, but I don't believe it's necessary for you to continuously spam the forum with updates that few PianoWorld visitors are concerned about.

By all accounts Roland have an excellent reputation for customer support, and I'm confident that the representatives you are in correspondence will continue to do everything they can to improve the situation.

Kind regards,
James
x


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"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
Kawai James #1892137 05/06/12 08:37 AM
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@Kawai James

..sorry, but I see this completely different - I think the very detailed updates of pv88 are very important to show up how a big company is dealing with issues ongoing since years (key wear) ..without any real solution.

I was just "seconds" away from buying a V-Piano ..before I read pv`s comments and from what I see he is really not complaining in any unfair way .. in my opinion he is working in a focused and directed way to get some (bloody) answers from Roland.

Please don`t change the facts - it`s the problem of Roland to sell such keys on such expensive instruments and ... it`s not pv88 who`s the problem by only doing what`s his "good right"..finding facts/answers/solutions...



Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892149 05/06/12 09:04 AM
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Cosmo4711, okay, I accept that I was perhaps a little harsh in my previous post.

I believe it's okay for pv88 and others to provide relevant information about the issue affecting their instrument. However, I maintain that the current strategy employed by pv88 is becoming rather excessive - it's almost as if he believes that the more negative posts he writes about Roland, the sooner his problem will be resolved. I don't agree with this practise.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
Kawai James #1892163 05/06/12 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Cosmo4711, okay, I accept that I was perhaps a little harsh in my previous post.

I believe it's okay for pv88 and others to provide relevant information about the issue affecting their instrument. However, I maintain that the current strategy employed by pv88 is becoming rather excessive - it's almost as if he believes that the more negative posts he writes about Roland, the sooner his problem will be resolved. I don't agree with this practise.

Kind regards,
James
x


I read his intentions a little differently. PV88 seems extremely detail oriented and I read his posts as just continuing to be that way. But I do agree that there aren't going to be very many other people who care about that level of detail.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892179 05/06/12 10:12 AM
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Support is a key issue (no pun intended) for DP buyers, many of whom purchase online. What's useful for intending purchasers is to know the way individual companies respond to grievances or issues. Reading threads on this forum, you begin to build up quite a clear picture about the type of response you can expect from manufacturers and their agents. I think that is one area where this type of thread is invaluable.

However, we all respond differently to problems - some are sanguine, and others fret continually. Threads can become irritating to read - but there is no obligation to continue reading. As much as consumers need to be cautious about expecting perfection (some even see problems where none really exist), those in the industry should guard against becoming too "clubby" - it's something that bedevils business and politics alike, to the detriment of ordinary people.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
Kawai James #1892329 05/06/12 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
By all accounts Roland have an excellent reputation for customer support, and I'm confident that the representatives you are in correspondence will continue to do everything they can to improve the situation.

Kind regards,
James
x


I would like to believe that Roland's customer support is "excellent" as mentioned here. Although the issue is simply finding a set of permanent keys for the V, and, it doesn't appear like things are headed in that direction.

The current (new) key beds from Japan are apparently not scratch resistant as I have already made this known to Roland, directly. It would be a real shame to have to return the V just on account of it having deteriorating key tops. I am willing to accept standard plastic keys, or, discuss ways in which the key top material could be buffed off and removed.

This is something Roland should consider if they do not want to lose their customers in the long run, as I have been sincere and forthright with my requests. If a customer in the UK can receive satisfactory results, then why not here for the rest of us, in the US?

The responsibility of manufacturing scratch resistant Ivory Feel key tops lies directly with Roland.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892554 05/06/12 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pv88


The responsibility of manufacturing scratch resistant Ivory Feel key tops lies directly with Roland.


It does, and I would even go to the extent of saying if they can't locate the scratch resistant keytops, they could get off their behinds and make up a set especially for you. This whole myth that things need to be tooled up for mass-production in order to be made is rubbish. There is no reason they couldn't do a small run, or even a single run of keybeds with hard plastic. It might be annoying to them, but it really wouldn't cost them anything. They already own the machines that shaped the tops, they already own the harder material. Get busy and make up a set or two! Heck, it would probably prove to be a money saver because then they would have an option on the shelf for all these customers who complain about the ivory keytops. Roland seems to be trying, but their solutions lack imagination and effectiveness.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
ando #1892564 05/06/12 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by pv88


The responsibility of manufacturing scratch resistant Ivory Feel key tops lies directly with Roland.


It does, and I would even go to the extent of saying if they can't locate the scratch resistant keytops, they could get off their behinds and make up a set especially for you. This whole myth that things need to be tooled up for mass-production in order to be made is rubbish. There is no reason they couldn't do a small run, or even a single run of keybeds with hard plastic. It might be annoying to them, but it really wouldn't cost them anything. They already own the machines that shaped the tops, they already own the harder material. Get busy and make up a set or two! Heck, it would probably prove to be a money saver because then they would have an option on the shelf for all these customers who complain about the ivory keytops. Roland seems to be trying, but their solutions lack imagination and effectiveness.


@ando,

Thanks for the reply, as Roland should proceed with your suggestions, here. And, that would at least be a step in the right direction.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892660 05/07/12 01:18 AM
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I now believe that I should not accept any keys from another keyboard as replacements, since this could affect the quality of the sounds, touch, and, connectivity of the playing. Since it is still not known as to exactly what kind of "white keys" were used in bennevis' repair (unless he wants to clarify this detail for all of us, here), then it's probably not a good idea to follow a similar repair, unless those keys can be proven to be absolutely scratch resistant as such. Still waiting to hear from either bennevis or Roland on this matter.

In the meanwhile, the best options for US customers would be:

1) For Roland to make/produce a new batch of scratch resistant "Ivory Feel" keys, just as many needed for customer requests.

2) Or, to make/produce the durable all-plastic standard keys.

First option is best, however, the second one is also good.

Current key bed exchanges (like mine) are unacceptable.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1892694 05/07/12 03:24 AM
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@pv88

Despite bennevis having received "new-"whiter"-keys" which are scratch-resistant....I got the feeling, that maybe he received the keys of FP-7F ?? ...and the only difference to your request is, that in the UK there was a (not-very-detail-orientated) "smart-and-cool" guy who thought .."who cares/who will mention/keys-are-keys" ??

Because if Roland-US says there are no other available options for the V-Piano ...why should they say that if that wouldn`t be the case?

I would completely agree with you and would not be willing to exchange the keys before I´m not a 100% on the safe side regarding functionality of the "new" keys.





Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
Cosmo4711 #1892726 05/07/12 05:46 AM
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Maybe you can get Ivorite key-tops from Yamaha (:


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Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
Kawai James #1892751 05/07/12 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
pv88, with the greatest respect, I don't believe it is the purpose of this forum to air your grievances about Roland.

Clearly you are unsatisfied with the key surfaces of your V-Piano, but I don't believe it's necessary for you to continuously spam the forum with updates that few PianoWorld visitors are concerned about.

By all accounts Roland have an excellent reputation for customer support, and I'm confident that the representatives you are in correspondence will continue to do everything they can to improve the situation.

Kind regards,
James
x


Kawai, with all due respect, PV88 has been a productive member of this forum and I do not believe he has stepped over his boundaries in airing his grievances. Pretty much he is documenting for everyone to read if they so choose his conversations in great detail with Roland in a public forum. This may or may not help his situation directly or indirectly as I do not believe Roland even has a representative like you in this forum. However as a V-piano owner myself who is still under warranty, I am still interested in the final outcome good or bad.

What we do know is bennevis got different keys that do not exhibit any issues with his playing. He did have issues before with the original keybed and since his playing style and frequency hasn't changed, this means that a higher quality keybed exists that has been manufactured. Whether the keybed bennevis received is the same as the on on the FP-7F and a more strong ivory type keybed or simply the same keybed PV88 received as his replacement is interesting if we could find out. (that would mean playing style is the culprit) With the amount of playing that I do, and my keys not having any issues that I notice yet. I have mentioned that it could be that my playing style has a lot to do with me not having problems yet. I cut my nails short and they never touch the keys when I play. However it is possible that in a couple years after my warranty expires, that my keys from my standard playing get bad. However I don't think I could go through a key replacement as PV88 has regardless unless it was affecting how I play.

In either case, this forum has only a few V-piano owners, and those that are interested in buying a V-piano should not have to be worried about this being an issue for the most part with newer shipped that have the Evolution upgrade already installed indicating a newer made model.

When ordering online from Musicians Friend for example, I know for a fact all their V-piano's they currently have in stock have the Evolution update installed as mine did, and the keybed should be stronger than the original one used a couple years ago as Roland did try and resolve this key wear issue early on from what I understand.

My assumption is this issue is a combination of different quality batches of the material on the keys, as well as different chemical compositions on players fingers perhaps, and playing style. However bennevis not having an issue now with his replacement means that chemicals in the hands and playing style was not the main issue for him. That is why we must find out what we can about why his is perfect now while PV88's is exhibiting the same issues as before.

Last edited by Kona_V-Piano; 05/07/12 07:22 AM.

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Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
Kona_V-Piano #1893180 05/07/12 08:52 PM
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@Kona_V-Piano, and, everyone else:

Thanks for attempting to clarify my own thoughts on this matter as it really has been difficult to understand why Roland has not yet found a permanent solution for making resilient "Ivory Feel" keys.

Important question:

So, why doesn't Roland just proceed to manufacture several new sets of "Ivory Feel" keys that are scratch resistant, just for customers that are requesting them?

The only real solution will be for Roland to make/manufacture several more sets of new key beds, otherwise, nothing has been solved as wear continues for customers who own the V-Piano.

Still waiting to hear from Roland, on this.

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1893602 05/08/12 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pv88
Still waiting to hear from Roland, on this.


Just did get word from Roland that there is a new key bed assembly* for the V-Piano as I am going to have my local shop order it.

The assembly will be shipped from Roland, Japan, so it will take several weeks in which to receive it, just as before.

Would like to remain hopeful that this one will have the scratch resistant key tops, as it is the 2nd exchange.

*Remains to be seen if this new assembly is any different from the current one I was just given.

Extra note:

I am also requesting that one of the keys (on the new assembly) should be "tested" as soon as it arrives at the shop. I will want to make a trip myself so that it can be determined if the keys are scratch resistant, prior to installing it into my piano.

Doesn't it make sense to check/test the new assembly first, in advance?

Re: Roland V-Piano "Ivory Feel" key tops wear & request
pv88 #1893794 05/08/12 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pv88
Originally Posted by pv88
Still waiting to hear from Roland, on this.


Just did get word from Roland that there is a new key bed assembly* for the V-Piano as I am going to have my local shop order it.

The assembly will be shipped from Roland, Japan, so it will take several weeks in which to receive it, just as before.

Would like to remain hopeful that this one will have the scratch resistant key tops, as it is the 2nd exchange.

*Remains to be seen if this new assembly is any different from the current one I was just given.

Extra note:

I am also requesting that one of the keys (on the new assembly) should be "tested" as soon as it arrives at the shop. I will want to make a trip myself so that it can be determined if the keys are scratch resistant, prior to installing it into my piano.

Doesn't it make sense to check/test the new assembly first, in advance?


I would ask the Roland representative if it is alright to make the scratch test on one key before it is installed as they are making this exchange under warranty. Perhaps Roland will not cover a 3rd exchange unless you do make the swap first, then give it a couple weeks of playing.

The last thing you want is to go and make the scratch test, discover that indeed it can easily get scratched, and then Roland is asking why you went ahead and damaged their new keybed before they even installed it. I know it sounds silly, however warranty coverage relies on you following instructions as well and not damaging on purpose any of the items. This scratch test might be considered you damaging the keybed. Just to be safe, ask Roland if you should even conduct the test at all before the swap/installation occurs.

Last edited by Kona_V-Piano; 05/08/12 08:42 PM.

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